Please do not change the original Lore!

Sylvanas only had her own campaign in TFT because of WAR3 FANBOYS. What you are doing here is dismissing a legitimate argument by trying to equate it with WoW. Regardless of what Sylvanas has become in WoW, the fact that she has any screentime in TFT is due to the fans just the same. We knew that was an influence considering fans were also the ones who substantiated the addition of the Pandaren Brewmaster and Goblin Tinker heroes.

By that same vein, the Dreadlords have always been written as antagonists. Supporting characters they may be, they are not POV characters because they are written for the purpose of being thwarted. We can apply this same logic to the Pitlords or the Eredar.

In Sylvanas’ story, she may not have a direct reason to hate the Dreadlords, but as fans who have played RoC and know who they are, we still are viewing them AS the badguys. Whether we are playing as Sylvanas or as Arthas, we are fighting the Dreadlord’s commanded troops. At no point are we given any reason to empathize with the Dreadlords or their cause. Like the Legion, they are completely devoid of any redeemable qualities.

Now you can interpret that all you will. You can empathize with their struggle to usurp control from Arthas. Yet nothing in the story actually suggests any redeemable quality about Varimathras. With Sylvanas, we empathize with her because she was tortured and seeks revenge. We get her. That is why it’s her story. I say this because that is how the story is written.

The Dreadlords are literally continuing the work of the Legion, and the story paints the Legion as the de-facto badguys. If you consider Varimathras gaining any redeemable value, then the idea that Varimathras is still in control manipulated must be separated for the audience to empathize with him. Yet even the audience does not trust him, and that’s why we are given those ‘loyalty’ scenes to cement the idea that he is now under Sylvanas’ command.

If we are to believe your interpretation of the story, then he is still a Villain who is manipulating Sylvanas, and at no point should the audience regard him as a main character at all considering all his motivations continue to lie with the Legion.

If they wanted to make Varimathras and the Dreadlords a serviceable power, they would not be writing them as ‘manipulating the Forsaken by feigning their own destruction’. For that to conclude satisfactorily, they would have to show Varimathras controlling Sylvanas/Forsaken somewhere in the story.

Taking WC2 as an example, we know Gul’dan is not trustworthy because we are shown him betraying the Horde. If he did not betray the Horde and WC2 ends with him still being ‘loyal’ to Doomhammer, then that paints a VASTLY different picture of Gul’dan; within the context of the story he really would simply be a whipped dog who creates the Death Knights and Ogre Mages for Doomhammer and resigns himself to continued servitude.

Without a conclusion for Varimathras within TFT, the self-contained story is that of a whipped dog Dreadlord.

So because he’s a villain makes him unimportant? I guess Arthas is unimportant then too.

Sylvanas is clearly the most important character in the entire lore according to you. Don’t worry though… most fanboys will agree.

It amazes me how you accuse me of making assumptions yet you make assumptions yourself… that’s what this entire response is.

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Harry Potter isn’t about Voldemort, despite his importance. It’s about Harry Potter.

Lord of the Rings isn’t about Sauron despite his importance. It’s about Frodo and the Fellowship.

I’m sorry but if you don’t understand the basics of story telling, you’re just gonna be stuck believing everyone accepts your personal interpretation of TFT. I am not dismissing your interpretation, I am dismissing your assertion that the story implies the Dreadlords as POV characters within the story.

Varimathras being a Supporting Character is not an interpretation or assumption, it is a definition of his role within the story. He is not a Main character or a Deutoragonist. We never see his POV as a protagonist, only his initial motivations as a supporting character/potential antagonist.

Of course Harry potter is going to be about Harry Potter, his name is in the title.

Lord Of The Rings isn’t all about Frodo. You barely even see him in The Two Towers lol.

The moment you get control of Varimathras you are playing from his POV just as much as Sylvanas. There’s no disputing this.

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POV means we get some depth to his character while we control him. Throughout any time we control him it is always as a supporting character to Sylvanas.

Kel’thuzad and Muradin are not POV characters despite us having control over them. You don’t seem to fully understand the difference between a POV character and a Supporting character if you believe the definition is based on ‘controlling the character’.

Can we lock this retarded repost. So old they also confirmed that they are retconning.

So please be quiet. They also said for you hard fanboys that they will limit the retcon as much as they can.

They just want the story to make sense as it continues into World of Warcraft.

Like Jaina and Sylvanas playing bigger roles. Maybe even Voljin or Rexxar can be the same. Same with Muradin and Kael

Im just curious of whats going to happen to the Rexxar campaign.

No, POV means you see the story from their perspective.

I don’t want it to continue into World Of Warcraft. That’s the purpose of this thread. I want Warcraft to go on its own path, that way no more of this “Allance and Horde are the good guys, everyone else is the bad guys” rubbish Blizzard put into WOW for gameplay balancing reasons.

Warcraft 4 was clearly meant to have a different story, all we are asking is for them to be faithful to Warcraft 3’s story and ignore WOW at the very least. That way we don’t have to constantly be reminded of that train wreck.

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U see if you want a wc4 you need wc3 to be successful.

This means bringing in new players. To and old community

The closest target market is Wow players. Some of them are interested in it. Thats who they are targeting.

We need to let retcon happen and bring in cash if wc4 is to happen one day.

Basic marketing. Cash is the drive not love for something. This is sadly the new Blizzard. They dont do it for passion anymore. Maybe a few developers but overall they have changed.

I don’t want a WC4 without Metzen.

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Many people want it though with or without him.

But it is very likely he will be requested to participate in development somehow.

The current writers are incapable of making Warcraft 4’s story. I suggest they keep the story faithful to Warcraft 3 with no retcons whatsoever or don’t bother at all. Retconning Warcraft 3 is an insult to all Warcraft fans, whether you accept that as an insult or not is up to you but that’s what it is.

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Small retcon like the culling geography changes should be accepted no?

No, everything should be the same, maps and everything. Just with the new character models/portraits etc. I want it to be faithful to Warcraft 3 so that people can see the original story for themselves, that way they can appreciate the game for what it is, not for what Blizzard thinks it should be.

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I understand story shouldnt change but basic geography making more sense is good.

Difficulty lvls so that newbies can come and learn then move to ladder.

Yh i agree general story shouldnt be changed.

But i still think jaina and syvlanas had small roles

Sylvanas should have remained a small role, she should never have been Warchief of the Horde, she should never have been a part of the horde to begin with. Sylvanas was just an antagonist who’s primary purpose was to make you root for Arthas. Then in Frozen Throne she is chasing down Arthas to get revenge but is used by Varimathras as a tool to control the plaguelands. Heck she wasn’t even a “banshee queen” she was just a leader of a group of undead renegades.

Jaina’s role in Warcraft 3 was pretty big though, she had connections with Arthas, her father and fought against Archimonde to save the world. Saying that her role is minor in Warcraft 3 is a lie.

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Let’s make this more clear then.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it makes zero sense for Sylvanas to fight against the Dreadlords unless Varimathras is controlling her. She had no desire to become the leader of the forsaken, she just wanted revenge against Arthas.

In the very first mission we play as Sylvanas, we are told of other motivations beyond revenge for Arthas. There is an emphasis on them being Free, and that becomes a driving point for her actions moving forward.

Varimathras comes to her and asks her to join (in servitude) or be cast aside. She says she doesn’t want to be a slave again. He leaves and says he will give his reply soon. At that point, she musters her forces and takes out Varimathras, forcing him to beg for his life.

Now, where do we assume that she has no motivation to fight the Dreadlords? They’re giving her an ultimatum to join-or-die. Wouldn’t manipulation involve a more subtle means for an alliance? I see this going two ways, he could either support her or denounce her.

A) He could have supported her goal of taking out Arthas and build up loyalty through service, the way Vashj did for Kael’thas. Instead, the offer was servitude, not an equal measure of power. If he was a true manipulator, then he would have sweetened the deal and betrayed her at a later point. I mean… that’s exactly what they did to Garithos.

B) If he wanted to manipulate her like Mal’ganis did, then he could have attacked her straight on. He didn’t exactly bait them into a trap. He didn’t even know Sylvanas had any values for freedom or that it would cause her to attack him. For all we know, he could have come back with a better deal to sweeten his offer; as it was too early to assume he would make an enemy out of Sylvanas based on her response alone.
Storywise, having him leave to come back with an answer does not suggest an underlying motive of deception to the audience. What we are given is the pretense for him being caught with his pants down and doing whatever he can to save face.

No dude… just no, Sylvanas clearly says “What are we but slaves to this torment?” She doesn’t enjoy her freedom because she is free as an undead. She wants to kill Arthas and die, that is all she ever wanted… period.

Varimathras didn’t want to attack Sylvanas directly, he wanted to test her. It’s not the Dreadlord way to attack someone directly. He wanter her to prove her worth to see if she could be useful to him. Hence why he had a base stationed very close to her despite comming throgugh a portal.

Then you are suggesting Sylvanas has no reason not to join the Dreadlords.

Which makes no sense for the story then.

Sylvanas had no reason to stay in Lordaeron… period. Arthas was in Northrend… she should have chased after him.