Haven’t played the game 12 years, but recently tried and Pathing is really terrible in comparision to Starcraft 2 which is fluid and enjoyable. Units look dumbass with brain lag. Hope Reforged will reforge that thing.
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The janky AI is part of the game, much like playing SC1 again in all its autistic-spectrum Dragoon glory.
At least Dragoons and Goliaths eventually get there.
Take a shot every time your army gets stuck on trees in Warcraft 2.
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No one said it was going to get huge, it’s just a remaster of a classic.
Don’t like it? don’t play it.
Honestly it’s not all that heretical to ask that the game be improved in some of the areas where it tends to suffers a bit and please note: I said that it suffers “A BIT”. I am not saying that it is the absolute worst thing in the whole freaking world (of warcraft) and since they’re already changing things I’m reasonably open to the idea of seeing updates and improvements the current pathing.
There’s a difference between a game’mechanics/limitations holding up and staying great as time passes and a games mechanics/limitations holding up through the lenses of nostalgia.
Dragoons and ramps/staircases can be pretty horrible and you know it alright?!
But at that point you might as well play Warcraft 3 on a technically superior SC2 engine through mods like Armies of Azeroth.
I’d be glad too if pathing were improved, but don’t forget that even if it’s clunky, it’s a core mechanic that is massively used in melee maps and probably in custom maps too. It will not be changed.
By that logic the “reforge” is relatively pointless isn’t it?
If nothing were different save for the graphics and a fair bit of audio then it’d just be a remaster.
And if it were completely different down to the core then it’d be more of a remake…
From all appearances (nothing 100% concrete here) we’re getting something in between the two.
Still the same game faithfully remastered but brought into the new era.
If the game runs smoother,better and smarter… Isn’t that for the best?
Or is the tedium (and it can be tedious at times alright) of constantly fighting with the pathing so integral to the game itself that change for the better does not actually exist?
not looking for a fight here of course. I’m just curious as many people here seem to be rather… opposed to change weather it’d be for the best or not.
The only reason it’s not called a remaster is so they have flexibility to mess around with engine tweaks and changes to the campaign and visuals. In all other respects it’s a remaster.
Gameplay-wise, they haven’t really touched anything other than balance numbers and retooling the UI. We haven’t even gotten a concrete answer to the unit selection limit either.
I’m all for having the game [play smoother and more responsive. I just don’t think they’re going out on a limb to do so, otherwise I’d suggest a whole new campaign with new spells instead of the crappy ones tied to Multiplayer Melee. Cuz, you know, Divine Shield sucks on Arthas and Farsight sucks on Thrall. Kael can’t even use Siphon Mana to give mana back to ally units/heroes.
you got me there, farsight kinda blows in campaign.
You are one of those people that hate sekiro arn’t ya. Just because you have to be better and smarter and not get hand held does not mean there is a problem.
If you like it or not, they allready kind of confirmed that they will not mess with the pathing. I am actually more on the fence of improving the pathing but as a developer I know that this will not be done with tweeking a few numbers here and there. To leave the surround and block mechanics as is (which are undoubtedly one of wc3 core mechanics) and changing pathing between your own units seems like a big task that should involve a lot of thinking, designing and developing. On top of that, all that efforts carry a huge risk! The Team could realise that they messed up the game and that they can not push it to the live servers and then you have a lot of wasted dev time. Or even worse, you think it is cool and push it to the live servers and everybody stops playing, pros migrate completely to netease, nobody buys reforged or streams it, etc. I do not think that they are willing to take that risk and I do not think they should, from a business standpoint.
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Risk can bring a lot of profit or big failure as well, but standing your ground waiting for things to happen will not bring you success. Warcraft 3 majority of buyers were not hardcore ladder player. Keeping messed up old warcraft 3 features is a poor blizzard bet and those features already exist into the good old warcraft 3… They recently showed us with starcraft 2 they can put money into E-sport just for publicity.
Some people will buy the game for nostalgia with new graphic, a good story line, or to keep playing the game they already hard core play on warcraft 3 everyday.
The issue with RTS is that more the game is old, less it’s likely for people to start playing just because the amount of knowledge and practice to get good increase over years.
So new young people interested in competitive video game (see the succes of games dedicated to competitive gameplay among the kids) will not get into it because there is already too much to learn and the dude that’s gonna have all the esport money arent them. It’s some old man practicing the game since 2003.
If they changed the game, everything will be new for everybody.
The campaign RTS player or story fan would still buy it.
Hardcore player too, because blizzard will just add warcraft 3 reforged competition to WCS schedule and pros will appear amongs the new players and stream too because people want to learn from better player.
What about the hardcore old warcraft 3 maniacs? They may buy it to get a taste of it.
If they dont stay? too bad they already have warcraft 3 and they arent a big number of people. There is currently no one playing the game there is not any match making cause you can match up with anybody and you still have to wait at least 5 minutes to find a game. A game last from 5 minutes to 2 hours, simple math that’s not a lot of people.
Just look at AOE2DE succes with improved pathing AI and game response time, that’s a god damn success !
If everything staying the same in warcraft 3 you will have two week ladder with plenty of people then the game player number will just slowly become the same again because all those people trying the ladder will just get bullyed by old hardcore players. it’s just the same game and if players prefer different RTS or games right now it’s not just because of graphic issue.
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You have to be joking…WarCraft 3 is the perfectly balanced RTS imo. It’s not as unforgiving as StarCraft, but not as stupidly simplfied as StarCraft 2. I know the pathing is not perfect, but we don’t want a game designed for babies who play on tablets.
And by the way, “modern standards” are crap !
Try playing Invoker
Armies struggling to get around corners and get around your own units to melee attack isn’t a good thing. People saying that improved pathing would make the game easier fail to recognize that it would actually make body blocking harder, so that point is invalid.
ne and ud are dead races - seems perfect? 
if you play wc3 on a pro/semipro level in gold age, then switch to other newer game, then comeback to try wc3 again - it feels terrible. And I know why. Because it is. Pathfinding ruins the fun.
And if you like play customs - it feels much worse. How can you create your own story/gameplay when it’s doomed as even 1 unit (rpg hero for example) will move clunky as hell.
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One of my biggest concern with the current pathing is shown in this video:
Archmage tries to blizzard a farm (it works the same if he tryed to just attack it) but it’s initially out of range; he then tries to close the gap along the pathing that would bring him on top of the farm instead of trying first to close the gap along the Archmage-farm line direction. He thus goes along that awkward path which in multiplayer resulted in many frustating run insde the base of the enemies.
My solution is to change the pathing (more like change PRIORITIES instead of the actual pathing which is fine for this game imo) so that he tries FIRST to come closer directly, if the way is closed THEN try to run around (this is valid for all ranged units that are trying to destroy some blocked building like fiends, rifles etc.). I bet this would result in also a smoother melee units trying to reach backlines, while still mantaing core features like bodyblocking.
We are only talking about pathing here.
Yes, it’s also an issue when attacking a unit from a cliff. Ranged units will run down the high ground and around the cliff to the other side instead of taking 1 step closer to attack.