Title. In lore, the light is effective vs both undead and demons–and also vs old god minions. Thus, I think that a change should be made so that units that have the Demon subtype, such as doomguards (though with their magic resistance maybe not), felguards, fel hounds, succubi, eredar warlocks, pit lords, and voidwalkers, should be damaged by holy light and anything like it. Faceless
ones should also be damaged by holy light. This would add flavor, as well as make the paladin better at creeping, and better at dealing with any summoned units. It’s really not a big change, but it’s always bothered me. What do you guys think?
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Interesting idea. It would totally make sense.
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What they should also do is enable more unit options in the World Editor. Right now, there’s for example living and undead target options meaning you can have a spell like Holy Light deal damage to Undead but heal a Mountain Giant.
There should be more options added into this like demons, naga, humans, night elves, orcs, dragons, murlocs, bandits, elementals and so on. You can technically create abilities that are race/unit specific already but there’s a chance you mess something else up in the process. Would make it easier to create multi-functional abilities like Holy Light in the Editor if they did this as I suggested.
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If they make this adjustment I think it would make the game dynamic a bit more interesting and lore friendly as well. I’m all for this tweak.
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Pretty sure holy light already hurts demons. At least I thought it did while testing it years back.
it makes sense.
death coil heals pit lords for example, but for some reason holy light did nothing against demons.
Warcraft II Paladins had healing (like ‘lay on hands’) and exorcism. It did kill demons afaik that later turned to doom guards. And it was a reliable way to kill death knights with a heavy and low bell strike. Very long range and if enough mana was spent, DK was insta dead.
Holy Light basically combined the two.
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While I agree, how often is a Paladin going to encounter demons?
Theres maybe one campaign mission where you can fight Mal’ganis in Stratholme. Other than that I don’t think there’s a single time where Humans with a Paladin hero come across attackable demons.
And for custom games, a handful of creeps on a handful of maps? And a Pitlord, if they have one.
you realize ladder exists, right? there are creeps with demons, and items that summon demons, and abilities that summon demons.
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I think they should bring back Dispel working on demons.
The RoC Orc last campaign is so much harder without Shamans being able to Purge the Infernals. It’s kinda dumb because they introduced Purge at around the time the Infernals drop down which was the ideal time to use it.
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Yeah I’m hoping they add the ability to customise classifications if units and the ability to create our own.
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Holy light did damage the pit lord in War3
it also does damage to the dreadlord–i don’t think it does damage to doomguards and felhounds and felguards and succubi and eredar
it might though. i THINK it does damage to faceless ones.
can someone test this? make something real quick in world editor and see what happens when you use holy light on a demon. Because I thought i’ve gotten it to work before.
Infernal for example can be healed by Death Coil, but can’t be damaged by Holy Light. Now this because its magic immune. Removing its immunity allows it to be target of Holy Light. Doom Guard is also vulnerable to Holy Light.
Most of the Demons are classed as creeps. Fel Stalker, Doom Guard and Infernal are classed as Demons. Undead creeps are classed as undead, thus follow normal rules.
There are a bunch of unit classifications, you need only look in the editor.
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I just played a game of Heroes where I was Malganis laning with Uther healing me. Felt so odd…
Okay, I just tested it, and Holy Light does indeed work on demons. The problem is that there is no actual unit classification as “Demon”, but if the unit’s race is demon, it is damaged by Holy Light. Funnily enough, many of the demons in Neutral Hostile are actually Creeps, other than the ones that are in Undead Campaign, like Felstalker and Doom Guard.
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You say “in lore” - is that WC3 lore, WoW lore, or general fantasy lore?
Do you want death coil to heal non-undead demons? (or hurt, or be immune)?
Have you checked whether the demons being hurt by light have the undead flag? (sorry, don’t have a WC3 key on hand till the WC3R ones come).
Yep, checked and they don’t have the undead flag. I even tried and only changed Footman’s race to demon and bam, Holy Light did damage to him.
This is however a bit confusing, why can’t the ‘demon’ be a classification just like the ‘undead’ is. That way you wouldn’t have to change the unit’s race. Race, for example, determines the unit’s place in the World Editor, so it can get quite messy, if few individuals are made demons just to work with Holy Light. Like the Footman moved under “neutral passive” once I changed the race to demon. Or at least there should be a different box for categorizing the units inside World Editor.
Could you heal the footman with death coil?
I agree - spell targets & races shouldn’t be directly linked.
Yes. So Holy Light and Death Coil are most likely coded the same way, other just heals and other damages in either cases.