We are seeing no Orcs in EU dreamhack atm. Spiral plays Elf and UD is heavily dominating.
Blizzard, this is not right. Orcs are struggling and it is ruining the dynamic of the game. I’m seeing the same match ups over and over again. Even Grubby, the Orc legend, switched to Elf this week because he was tired of Orc struggling in certain situations.
Since Blizzard started patching the game Orcs have been deprived of all their essentials:
In return Orcs got buffs for completely useless things that almost nobody ever uses or are used only very occasionaly. Orcs can’t win vs MGs, mass Archers, can’t win vs Undead fast expo. Literally zero good matchups.
It’s only 3 Orc players in the world that keep the race alive. In tier 2 tournaments Orc is dead race. European Orcs are nowhere to be found in any tourneys.
Look at statistics at W3Champions. Orcs have the fewest amount of players in Grand Master AND Master leagues in BOTH Europe and America. How this hasn’t been taken into consideration yet?
let them suffer for 15 years like undead did then and only then do they have the right to complain
Orc literally won the premiere tournaments the moment this patch was released. If anything, orc has been heavily buffed and the 40 wisp detonation and 11 food has broke the game balance at top level.
Lawliet got 0-4ed by Sok since this patch (the 40 wisp nerf) yesterday on AWL.
In the same tourny, Moon got 3-2 vs Chaemiko in which he should have lost game 3 but only won because Chaemiko didnt spend 1900 excess gold at end for some reason (being cocky and going afk (?)). In concealed hills, even WITH fountain, mountain giants are not enough vs HU.
Lawliet and Moon can barely win (if not gets barely slaughtered) by Chaemiko and Sok who were historically considered tier 2 players. Basically tier 1 Elf is worse than tier 2 HU at top scene now. Of course, we also cannot forget the fact that HU peasants got a random HP buff for the sake of HU vs UD which ruins all other MU since HU before patch already was in a better spot in the matchup vs Elf.
As for orc again:
We got Fly100% winning WCG 2020.
We got Focus winning NetEase Esports X Tournament - 2020 Winter.
All this moment the 11 food hall and 40 wisp detonation happened.
It takes some time for patch imbalance to show up. Just give it some time. If anything, it seems Orc and HU are over buffed if not Elf is over nerfed according to recent tournaments after this patch: WCG2020, NetEase Esports X, and AWL Cup.
You should make another thread about Elf-Hu because you seem to have strong feelings about that match up.
Damn it. You don’t have to be a mathematician. Strategist. Lest you notice what Orcs regularly fail. A race that is famous for its strength, which is completely absent in duels. It is constantly being weakened. How is it possible that they are so weak that nobody wants to play Eu with them. Literally no one. The famous Grubby has trouble winning against stronger players in the EU. It’s not about skill.
Tauren - life return from 1300 - to 1500 was it!
Tauren Chieftain - The Shockwave must deal more damage with your footstep
Serial lightning has a very low damage quality
. How is it possible that a muscular Orc Soothsayer has as much life as an Archmage? Why does the King of the Mountains have more strength and life than Blademaster? Can anyone honestly consider people’s requests. Warcraft has always been associated with the human-Orc duel and the brute force of the Orcs. Meanwhile, strange things are happening … It repels me. My heart hurts . This is not how it should look, gentlemen.
Orc may need a buff . But the orc player base is also kind of in a weird place. In Europe the best orc honestly is probably still a certain EX-pro player and in Asia Lyn is just in terrible shape right now. If Lynn was in 2019 WGL shape, I don’t know if we are saying these things. Fly looks really good right now, Infi was just so on point this WGL. Fly is playing like a top 5 player these days.
If orc gets a buff, I would focus on the units. Orc has great heroes but the worst units in the game.
(As a random guy who watched every single tournament out there and has undead as his main in 1v1 followed by human)
Yeah orc is clearly in a bad shpe.
It has fewer pros and players in general than any other race and it just feels extremely underwhelming.
Its army is trash and it’s heroes are in no way better than the human am mk pala or undead dk lich dr/cl/pl
I just find it ridiculous how orcs who are so big and strong and fierce and who are supposed to be the ‘‘physical damage race’’ are just so underwhelming.
The army deals no damage, is not particularly hard to kill and is the easiest of any other race’s to crowd-control.
Either the orc army should be buffed to actually deal normal level of damage to be at least close to the undead/night elf/human armies or the orc heroes should be buffed to actually be somewhat above what the other race’s heroes are capable of (which is just not the case now).
And I really hope something will be done because it feels like the race is just dying in tournaments (people are leaving and noone is replacing them because the race demands a lot of skill and concentration and gives nothing in return that you wouldn’t get from the other races).
I hope so for the sake of this game.
Orc race has been nurfed too much. BM lost its point and advantage. It is not so fast anymore.
I noticed that more and more players choose FS or TC. Tauren Chieftain is too slow to stand chance against the other race’s heroes. Shadow Hunter is suitable for a second hero. Healing Wave should not cost 90 Mana. SH is not a mage, it has agility. 70 mana would be better.
Healing Wards are pointless due the the 5 HP. In RoC it used to have 200.
Troll Doc has useless abilities. In the beta WC3 he had much better ones. He should have more destructive ones, e.g. the negative version of Bloodlust for the master caster upgrade: reduce the enemy’s attack speed.
The huge advantage of the Orc race is the Bloodlust spell. But to get to T3 is a huge lumber cost, so this should be nerfed.
Taurens should have 1500 HP, I agree. Wind Riders should have more HP. And a better choice of AA.
NE is better because it has better choice of ranged units + MG. Chims rip through the heroes and Taurens too fast. Chims don’t attack air, so bats and wywerns are perfect to kill them.
Undead: Wyrms often mean instant win against orc, unless the teammates have a lot of aa.
Human: Knights vs Trolls and Riflemen agains Orc is uber powerful. I am not saying to nerf Riflemen. I am just saying to make orc units stronger and have more destructive abilities.
Burrows are a great problem. It should cost 140 gold, or even 130, and the build time should be reduced. I often cannot make a huge army as fast as the other races because I am waiting for the burrows to finish.
PS: In the beta Warcraft 3, Orc had the Warlord Hero with Command Aura, the second aura for the orc race. He looked similar to the Slave Master.
I mean, the problem is they deal no damage.
Whos supposed to do any damage?
The orc army? Pffhahhaahaha. There’s nothing there that does damage. Maybe wyverns but that’s how you meme not win.
The TC? With what? He is a big grunt with a solid crowd-control. The idea with crowd-control is that you keep the enemy paralyzed while you kill it. The enemy’s paralyzed but what’s killing it? Nothing.
FS? With what? Chain Lightning deals dispersed damage and Wolves get insta-dispelled (they’re x2 more vulenrable to dispel than water elemental) and even if they somehow survive they’re super vulnerable to dispel and can be kited.
There is nothing in the Orc Army or among the Orc Heroes that can deal any damage.
I don’t know man zerkers have pretty damn good DPS. Orc units are fairly weak compared to other races but the heroes are solid and late game zerker armies can be super high dps. I play a lot of FFA and in that setting given enough time orc can be terrifying. Like undead they cant creep as fast as elf or human and are the worst for fast expansion strats in 1v1. Im a fan of FS HH strategies I don’t really like grunts.
They have okay-ish dps but they get super hard countered by stuff like Dark Ranger, Crypt Lord, Mortars, etc (so very standard stuff). They just aren’t viable as a meta if your adversary has any idea about what he is doing.
So are every other race’s heroes basically. So you got 3 races with solid armies and heroes and then you got orc with bad army and solid heroes.
I don’t think elf has good heroes its why they have to tavern so much they are just worse than every other race. Zerkers are the best ground late game units due to orc casters which makes it one of the only viable ground armies in FFA where everyone goes mass air. So no they are pretty damn good units with more than mediocre dps in practice. Orc units are bad by comparison in that one of the 4 races must have the weakest units. Elf has the best units and worst heroes ud and human are in between these two and while I do think orc is weakest in 1v1 its not by much balance is pretty good.
So looking at orc units in a vacuum sure weakest but lusted zerkers sitting in rank 2 tc aura with spirit link and healing wards and tauren upfront is pretty disgusting high dps. I like playing kiwi style because the dps is in fact great. Not to mention how many games I just flat out win with far seer harass if opponent is greedy/ unlucky. Maybe orc needs a little love based off the pro games a watch but its not so bad imo.
It depends.
Elf doesn’t have a good tri-hero like the other races (it doesn’t have good hero syndergy) but when it comes to 1v1 or 2v2 heroes it’s very solid.
Doesn’t work in 1v1 tho.
Maybe team games.
And if you don’t do that FS becomes utterly useless mid-late game sadly.
Meanwhile, AM is very solid early (burrow rush ftw) and mid-late game.
I agree you at this point. The only hero which does some damage is the BM, of course, but he is nerfed. He used to be much faster. BM harrass is no longer az option because all players know how to handle it. Today my 3 Undead Nerubian Tower attacked him and he went back.
Taurens do damage but they are large so they easily get stuck and destroyed instantly by air and focused ranged. Especially with Night Elf Units.
I agree with you that Chain Lightnining is weaker than it is used to be.
As Mox said, Spirit link can be really useful, especially in team games. Also, spirit walkers can resurrect non-hero Taurens but I never see them doing it.
They don’t.
99.9% of cases they get crowd controlled (slowed for example) + kited and do absolutely nothing.
They’re the worst T3 melee in the game, ironically being supposed to be the best.
Knights can’t get slowed + kited because human has great dispel (sbs, priest dispel, all this + Brilliance aura) and because they’re very fast and nimble to begin with.
Abominations are there mostly for the DoT, so they just need to get on top of the enemy for a little bit/die in the enemy’s proximity and that’s pretty much their job done. Plus, undead has more than decent dispel and Unholy Aura, so yeah they’re harder to cc/kite than Tauren.
Bears… do I even need to comment here? They’ve got amazing damage, are reasonably mobile, night elf has great dispel, they can heal and they’ve got one of the best buffs in the game.
Tauren is the worst T3 melee by far since Orc was the worse anti-magic capabilities in the game.
They’re so bad, orc T2 units (Kodos) counter them.
Cooper - Wan qualifying. First game 2-0 Second 3-0 Clearly Orc’s weakness against the strongest undead players. Tauren chief - terrible sand. - strengthen the stomp to what it used to be! The orc army is dramatically weak. Rider - not enough life. Tauren should have what it used to be 1500. Wyverns better defense. It’s not worth talking . You can’t see it. Focus has lost 5 consecutive times to Happy without scratching the ladder.
So Taurens had 1500 HP originally?
It is funny that CL has lower HP but it is like a tank. TC is not a tank at all. It can be killed too fast with ranged attack.
Only Bloodlust is worth to tech for. Esepcally your team players benefit from it, e.g. Wyrms with Bloodlust and Unholy Frenzy means instant win.
The HP isn’t the problem.
What they need is for the orc casters to be buffed so they can actually do their job decently (every other race has decent dispel, only orc doesn’t because it’s casters run OOM fast and have no way of replenishing mana, unlike the casters of other races).
They also absolutely need Resisten Skin.
It’s so ridiculous that orc T2 (kodos) hard-counters orc T3 (tauren).
A new rage-based mechanic (if the tauren is cc-ed for too long it goes berserk) that increases damage and makes them immune to crowd-control would be the best solution tho, imho.
I agree with you.
Orc has the Spirit Walker which has dispel (Disenchant)but it removes all buffs, including the friendly ones. But he can be built from the Tauren Totem now, from a separate building.
That rage-based mechanic would be nice.
I also thought about reorganizing the Troll Witch Doctor’s spells. The first two are almost useless. He should have more destructive spells.