Option to opt out of solo RT vs AT premade teams

General Discussion
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Simple solution. Players who want to play solo que RT vs only other solo que RT players ( like it always used to be and was working perfectly fine ), can click an option to be removed from que that plays versus arranged team premades.

This will solve the problem outright. The 2 people on these forums that post constantly in favor of solo que RT players getting destroyed so that AT players can have a short que dont represent the vast majority of us players that keep this game alive.

If there are so many AT teams not being able to find a match, then how are they not able to que into each other? The logic makes zero sense. If there is so many AT teams out there complaining then there should be plenty of arranged teams for them to play with. As we all suspect, they just want to pub stomp RT players for their own personal amusement and not have to face other arranged team competitors that would actually challenge them.

Not only do us RT solo que players get crushed every game vs AT premades, they constantly insult you as they do it. Its a toxic gaming environment. They know they are winning so they spew insults ( many racist comments also ) because they know that most solo que RT players are just average people trying to enjoy a game.

Let solo the RT players have an option to opt out of queing into this toxic gameplay. RT players that wish to play vs AT players can do so then, we need an option to only play with other solo que RT players like it was before this ridiculous change. The game was fine up until this happened.

Back in Starcraft 1 there was a thriving custom game scene where you could join many different game modes. No rush 15-20 mins games were very common. With AT vs RT being removed ( as it should ) the AT community can then start to build up their player base in custom games just like Starcraft 1 did, they can find and que into other AT premades easily.

The truth will be known then if they actually want to play other AT teams or just want easy wins vs RT teams. If the AT player base is so massisve as they claim, then the que times will be short and the custom game lobbies will be plentiful. If not, then we will know that the small vocal few on here that troll the posts infavor of AT vs RT are lying and being disingenuous about this topic.

As Grubby who does play on Bnet and WC3 champions into RT as hes stated and I watch his streams, The RT community is suffering for a few AT players. The thriving RT games are being cannibalised for AT teams personal amusement.

In Gubbys own words “ then let it die “ RT solo que should not be ruined for the sole enjoyment of AT premades, AT premades vs other AT premades is the only logical solution to this thats fair and balanced. If there is so many AT premades out there, then they can que into each other.

A one button solution for solo RT players to opt out of versing AT premades would solve all our issues on both sides.

Did they REALLY buff these 3 HEROES?

0:40 Grubby explains why him and the solo RT community do not agree with the forced AT vs RT abusive change.

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Nawwww. I solo RT and I support AT v RT. Don’t say it’s everyone when it isn’t.

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You are the one and only solo RT player I have encountered in all my thousands of games that wants At premade teams vs solo RT players.

You also call people that dont want to face AT teams as solo RT que “ noobs “ and “ drama queens “ so you are just a troll.

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I’m going to repost what I already mentioned in another thread about this, but I think that, while not a bad idea in theory, it will likely defeat or significantly compromise the purpose of having allowed this again in the first place.

Although I’m not entirely against this, I fear that offering the option will end up defeating the purpose of improving queue times for groups. They could certainly try it, but if groups of friends become unable to play, we’ll be back to where we started.

Just hear me out here- Based on what I said: If they revamp the AT system so that you don’t have team-specific MMRs anymore, “pubstomps” as you call them, will be substantially less likely because each player will have an MMR and it won’t be reset by grouping with different people. These people may wipe the floor with some noobs but their MMRs will rise and they will become less and less likely to get matched against weaker players.

That’s because the whole reason this happens is currently every group you queue up with gets its own team-specific MMR- that MMR is only used when that exact set of players queues up. This means every time you play with a different person, your MMR is essentially reset to the default- meaning that even the most mediocre premade teams end up unintentionally smurfing (of course, it can also be intentionally exploited as well). We need to eliminate the team-specific MMR system and I’m quite confident this problem will go away.

They added weighting to the MMRs of Arranged Teams with the intent of matching them to stronger opponents to compensate for the teamplay advantage. But the constant resetting of player’s MMRs when they group with different people drastically limits the effect of this. It basically just means that ATs mathematically start with a slightly higher MMR than what’s displayed.

Hello, I’m person #2. And if you actually read around these forums you’ll find there’s more support for this than you think. That said, it’s less that I “want” to face ATs as an RT player and more that I understand the predicament AT players encountered prior to this patch, of not being able to enjoy the game with their friends at all due to extreme wait times.

There are ways to fix it, one of which I described above, and another of which Blizzard has already implemented (though admittedly it’s not enough by itself)- MMR weighting for ATs.

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I am against RT vs AT premade teams because it is unfair, ATs can communicate, which gives them a significant advantage. I agree with the points Grubby mentioned regarding fairness: forcing these matches risks ruining the experience for both AT and RT players.

Like Grubby said: “Let it die, and let only solo queuers find games. I think that’s better than also ruining it for solo queuers.” + “…lack of punisment system for leavers TK, etc.” - that we’ve discussed here and yesterday on the SC2 forum, but you quickly dismissed my points and freezed the discussion.

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Lel. Taking things out of context, huh. I called you a drama queen because of how you acted on the other post. And I said thinking that all teams use comms is a “noob mindset”. Not the same as calling you a noob.

Also you’re not going to hear people who agree with this making a point to say it. It’s only the people who want to voice their dissent who are going to be the loudest…

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Too much in some regards. As a duo the mmr gain is way too much. +500 for first win(has happened more than once), and by 5-0 you’re at 5100. Then it’s onto 5, and soon after 10-20 minute queues. By 25-0 we’re looking at one game an hour again. This should not be a thing for only having 2/4 players.

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It’s not about (or isn’t supposed to be about) MMR gain. Weighting means (or should mean) treating the team as if it were some amount higher in MMR for the purposes of matching with non AT players and not applying this weight against other ATs of the same size.

Can you prove/show me that ATs are simply seeing larger MMR changes past their first handful of games than they were in seasons past? I do not have friends who play this game so I can’t readily experience this.

If Blizzard actually just changed how much MMR teams gain/lose that’s not weighting like they claimed. Weighting would be what I just described. weighting is like a handicap, like in golf or in bowling leagues, designed to balance out skill disparities.

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Right now it’s a mix of MMR + AT, but it’s only really noticeable once you get to around 5200+MMR. Start to vs a lot more partials or full teams(even fresh 0-0). Once you hit about a 20 minute search time the prerequisites of partial/team, and even MMR balance tends to drop a considerable amount though; goes from only 4.5k+MMR solos to getting a whole lobby of sub 5k with the lowest Ive seen being 3.9k.

There’s also really dumb balancing that gives the partial highest MMR RT’s too. Makes for an even longer queue with this additional prereq.

Can’t. Records on my prof don’t go that far back. I know it’s happened 3x where first game is around +400-600 though. And at least twice 5-0 has given us between 5100-5300MMR.

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hm. Well the largest change I remember seeing after past resets is around 300. So I guess that’s a possibility, though just a couple numbers isnt really conclusive.

It does sound like they’ve made some kind of an attempt to put ATs with stronger opponents. But the real issue mains the one I described in my other post: Changing party members essentially means you are regularly resetting your MMR to default and this results in at best unintentional smurfing. They really should ditch the whole concept of per-team stats in my opinion. That would also make their existing efforts to improve the situation significantly more effective.

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I personally don’t mind to vs AT teams in solo RT QUE, infact often it makes the games more enjoyable as it is very satisfying to destroy premade teams with randoms.

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Good, then my idea will work fine. People like you 3 can choose to NOT opt out of facing premade AT teams and people like me can opt out and play pure solo RT vs solo RT as it should be.

My 1st game today was vs another premade, I decided to play it out and I knew I would regret it. They instantly rush one guy, we go the help him, hes now crippled, I go and kill 2 of their expos. The mass the guy on the bottom, I tp, other allie is already dead, other allie walks, 1st allie leaves, second allie leaves. Games already over. This is why people instantly leave.

I look up profile stats, My allies are 30-40% win rate players, Im average 50% in team game RT.

The premade? 19-0 LIKE EVERY PREMADE WE ARE FACING.

Again…. We need an opt out button… We are not here playing this game so that we are the cannon fodder for premades so they dont have to have a LONGER QUE TIME.

Becasuse thats exactly what it feels like and IS at this point, we are the people that get to be destroyed over and over again at the expense of our fun and fairness just so a few can have shorter que times.

It has to stop, WC3 is already losing players because of it, People are already “ Opting out by just instant leaving already. “ Im at the point now of just instant leaving too. The teams we are faceing as just random solo players are always 20-0 30-0 ive seen 140- 0 and we are just barely 50% win rate players in team game. I can manage to stay above 50% in solo but my solo play dosnt matter in these team games vs fully coordinated 3v3 / 4v4 teams.

It is extremely frustrating, demoralizing and un fun for all involved except the full premade team who gets to stomp us solo que RT players 99% of the time.. all while spamming chat with often racist slurs and worse while we are just silently trying to play.

BLIZZZARD… GIVE US A @#$%ing OPT OUT BUTTON OR YOU WILL KILL ANOTHER FUN AND WORKING GAME MODE/ GAME just like to did with HoTS…. all to the cater to the few at the expense of the MANY.

Did they REALLY buff these 3 HEROES?

0:40 Grubby explains why him and the solo RT community do not agree with the forced AT vs RT abusive change. Grubby is 1000000% right about this. solo RT works and is fun and a great mode for all us solo RT players. When grubby means “ LET IT DIE “ he knows that solo RT will suffer is going to fade and be lost because of the AT premades whinning about que times.

Seriously… $$%%^ your QUE TIMES! we have a fun working game mode.

You guys are ruining it, MAKE CUSTOM GAMES and PLAY WITH EACH OTHER, MAKE YOUR OWN LEAGUES FOR ALL WE CARE. Organize on the forums and message boards, start making custom game 3v3 / 4v4 lobbies.

Leave us SOLO RT PLAYERS ALONE and let our working and function game mode keep working the way its always been.

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Yes, we’ve been fighting since 2020 to keep AT separate from RT. After 2–3 hard years on forums, yotube and reddit, we finally got what we asked for, and things actually started to feel fair and balanced.

Now, because of a few forum suggestions and concerns about the declining player base, the decision was reversed. I agree that the player base has decreased, and something needs to be done - but mixing AT and RT again is not the solution. The real solution is promoting the game properly (for example STEAM) and bringing in new players.

Since the revert, the quality of games has dropped. People are frustrated again, I am glad others mentioned it, so I am not the only one. So this AT&RT generates more leavers, and generally worse in-game behavior. We already went through this once => we know how it ends.

Separating AT and RT worked. Reverting it just brings back the same old problems. Thanks Blizzard.

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They will run the working and FUN game mode into the ground until its dead and gone, THEN NO ONE WILL find a game. Its absolute madness at our expense.

Its HoTS all over again… They are literally cannibalising the classic working game mode, solo que RT for a short term fix. Catering to the few at the expense of the MANY.

I started playing solo RT last year. So maybe I came in before AT vs RT was allowed so to me the rt vs rt only was the default. Now its like this, its pure madness.

Ive never posted on these forums for decades, others are frustrated and and just instant leaving now. They are breaking the solo RT games for a few AT teams that want to pub stomp their way to 200-0 win rates. how in the #$%^ is that not completely broken match making and game play?

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Yes, you are right Darkenrhal !
And they said they try to adjust MMR , and now I feel they did a little bit. But honestly, it feels mostly cosmetic.

Maybe on paper the RT team has now +300 MMR. But that doesn’t address the real issue. The biggest problem is that in almost every game, someone from the RT side leaves in under 1 minute. That completely ruins the match. No MMR adjustment can fix constant early leavers.

If mixing is absolutely necessary, then at least consider better solutions. For example, make it 3 AT vs 4 RT with one intentionally empty slot, so it’s truly 3 vs 4. That way the AT accepts the numerical disadvantage.

Or let groups of four friends queue as 2 AT vs 2 AT, like in board games, and rotate partners after a while. I have no issue with friends playing together.
Or if someone can find 7 more friends => 4 vs 4 AT.

All we’re asking for is the chance to enjoy proper RT vs RT games as well. Both communities should be able to coexist without one side constantly feeling disadvantaged.

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THIS>>> SO THIS… THIS is EXACTLY what me and my group of friends DID in SC2.

There used to be a custom game KING of the HILL mode where you could 1v1 2v2 3v3. We usually just 1v1ed king of the hill, IT HAD OBS. We were all in either discord or the INGAME voice SC2 had. It was heella fun. I was the strongest player out of us 7 so when we FFAed they usually just teamed up on me so I would mass cannons, harass with oracles/ phoenix, tempest carriers and Templar storm and still manage to win vs all them some how haha.

WHY cant the AT players do that to? WE USED TO DO it? Whats stopping you?

Do you guys TRULY want to play other AT competitive matches or just easy pub stomp your way to ridiculous 50-0 100-0 win rates to feel superior over just average players solo queing RT with ZERO #$%^ing coordination other than “ go “ “ go now befor they mass chims and gryphons “ “stop creeping, they are teching “ “ I forgot to make my hero” “I forgot to buy a tp “ “ Im teching to tanks “ LOL or its “ blank” “ blank” because hes either from russia, elsavador or korea.

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The difference with War3 is that even the interface and lobby system are more limited.
I’m not talking about cosmetics, I mean functionality.

In SC2, you invite players into a lobby where you can clearly define teams, choose races, set starting positions, colors, and in some modes even assign roles.
If for ex. someone leaves, you have two options:

  • you can either start with one less player,
  • or invite someone else from the general lobby to fill the slot.

The system is flexible and gives players control.
In War3, that level of control simply isn’t there.

I’m not talking about old War3 or SC1. I’m comparing modern Blizzard RTS titles — specifically SC2: Legacy of the Void and War3: Reforged. They’re both Blizzard’s RTS games. There’s no reason Reforged could not adopt ideas and interface solutions that already work well in SC2. You don’t need to reinvent everything, just keep what’s working like the structured lobby tables and clearer team setup system, and redesign what doesn’t.

And just to be clear for anyone who wants to nitpick, I’m not talking about sharing code or merging game engines. Obviously, they are different games built on different systems.
I’m talking about general organizational ideas and interface design philosophy. Things like structured lobby tables, clearer team management, flexible slot control, those are design concepts, not engine-dependent features.

Coming back, so they removed AT vs RT before because it was creating clear fairness issues. Now they’ve reverted that decision instead of addressing the root problem.

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I agree with everything you said. WC3 is an old game, but its pure MAGIC old school gaming. SC2 was great and Im considering going back but WC3… WC3… heros, TAVERN heros, Items, Experience gains, not 3 but 4! some what balanced races! Economy mechanics, Mercenary shops, Work shop units, Creeping vs not creeping, You can win games with just a hero some times. its great!

New games just dont compete to these levels of variables and complication. Tavern heros alone add so much replayability.

Grubby, Back to Warcraft, Saulapeman, All these guys are reviving the love we all once had for this game in all its forms, 1v1, custom games, the pure madness and chaos that is solo RT, a classic fun and cherished almost sacred game mode where nearly ANY thing can happen in the context of you have 3- 4 random “ BOZOs” as Grubby put it.

Some people are new, some are die hard try hard sweaty gamers, some just leave, some just troll, some just afk , LAUNGUAGE barriers! limited communications, the old Janky unit AI where you can block and surround heroes and units, Its awesome! Some just instant leave! but with in there frame work, theres magic. If your good or just tenacious enough you can win despite all these handicaps.

ITs like OLD DOTA / HON and DOTA2 on release. You could still jungle or carry your entire team to a win just as a solo player if the game starting trending towards that kinda game play.

AT premade vs solo RT RUINS THAT aspect 100% there is no debate in this.

WC3 could use some updates 100% sure… IM just GLAD they gave us A WAY TO CUSTOM KEY BIND!!! THAT WAS #$%^ing MASSIVE! Before that, I had to go into some random notepad script thing and manually change all my hot keys. When I went to my friends house to LAN i had to so it all over again if i didnt bring my gaming lap top with me.

My friends in SC2 were from all over the world USA, Canada, Australia and Asia so we just Texted each other or used facebook messenger to coordinate games and scrims with each other. The in SC2 systems were far superior to what we have to work with in WC3 for sure but we just used 3rd party ways to get each other on until we where all in game.

Dont even get me started on the lack of punishment’s for instant leavers, team killers and straight up trolling behavior. Us solo RT players have been dealing with it since the early 2000s. It should be an easy fix, All modern RTS , MOBAS have penalty systems in place. As solo RT players, we have just dealt with it.

Now throw in AT premade teams to the mix of all the handicaps us RT players face in OUR OWN TEAMS… the AT uber coordination/ strategy is just to much and breaks the MAGIC that was solo RT 3v3 / 4v4.

All the UI optimizations would be welcomed in Wc3. Lets fix this AT vs solo RT debacle 1st so that solo RT can go back the fun mode it was always meant to be, the peoples mode! The vast majority of average players Mode!

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It won’t work fine if not enough people choose to participate. And while there are certainly people who would, it is hard to say if it would be enough to make everything work. This idea splits every team queue into two pools of players and wouldn’t be good for either group.

The whole reason they brought back AT vs RT was because the splitting of the playerbase was bad for both groups. From this standpoint making it optional is basically the same as not having it at all.

This doesn’t work for competitive matchmaking. It’s fine for casual play but the war3 playerbase isn’t big enough to split the population even more than it already is, which is the whole reason why the AT/RT decision was made

Ultimately my opinion is the problems associated with allowing solos and groups to play together can be resolved- Many other games have this and people don’t complain much. This is the only game where peope complain about it. Now I’m not saying the complaints aren’t justified. But my issue here is people are just convinced it’s an unsolvable problem when it definitely isn’t, as like I said, other games mix solos and groups just fine.

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Ultiamtely, people want to play the game with the least friction possible. Long wait times = lots of friction. With the queues seperated, people literally can’t play with friends.

You’re convinced this is all about pros wanting to crush noobs but the reality is most people aren’t like that, they just want to play with their friends.

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