KOTG is not THAT OP, Entangle is definitely not OP, and Hunts are not OP


To start off, I want to say lot of crap people are saying are OP, really isn’t. It’s just that they get tired of seeing it and playing against it. This game is very trendy. More than ever with all the steaming. Players need to adapt and complain less. They want to use the tactics they’ve used years ago but players change. There’s new strategies and knowledge.

Another thing, Nightelves are the most played race since I could remember. Once again, the more people see something, they more they get annoyed of it (the more they complain). I’m not sure what Blizzard could have done to fix this, other than make them less interesting and their campaign less fun. Maybe that’s their plan for Reforged. It looks like the attention is more on the Humans and UD.


KOTG and NE got other buffs but Entangling Roots is getting all the hate. Why? People do not get it. Entangling Roots has ALWAYS been a good spell. That is not the issue. The bigger issues could be:

  • Moonwell buffs which does affect Entangling Roots (you get to use it more)
  • Treant buffs/mana reduction. It’s more wise to ditch the Thorns aura in favor of Treants now. And with the Moonwell buffs, you can cast it more.
    – On another note, Treants are more annoying than they are good imo. I think people just hate seeing so many of them, and they don’t know how to macro. Treants are still weak, and require an expensive update (yes, an actual update that affects a Hero’s ability) to be good. KOTG is a high-int/mana hero like AM and FS, so I think he should have two usable spells. They should maybe consider increasing the mana cost. And/or they should ditch that update and just have Treants somewhere around the middle.

Most importantly, for the race with the worst options for second heroes, lot of people forget to mention that DH and Warden got nerfed, hence why KOTG gets a higher pick-rate now. It’s not because he is OP, it’s honestly because the other heroes are so bad. We’d honestly see the same thing if they nerfed AM and buffed MK. We’d see countless threads of how MK and Stormbolt is OP. Even if Stormbolt didn’t actually get buffed. People will still say it’s OP because they’d see it much more often.

Just like Druids getting nerfed and MGs getting buffed, players will opt for MGs. With his taunt and tanking abilities, players just get annoyed of them. When you nerf something and buff something in the same category, it increases the gap much more. Which is why we see a high KOTG pick-rate and more MGs.

As far as Hunts, I really do not think they are that good. They are just fast. They were OP when they automatically got the owl update, but that has been removed and now requires a costly update. Moonglades at Tier 2 also requires a costly update. Getting these two updates really slows down your tech and can cost you the game. They are not that good against anything even for tier 1 (HH, fiends, riflemen, and even archers sometimes can counter them easily). And 2 smartly placed towers can take a bunch of them out. Most people who lose to and complain about Hunts, would honestly lose to any other rush. Yes, your 3 unit/no-unit tech lost to 12 Hunts, surprise! The issue might be the moonwell buff, which could allow for multiple hit-and-run attempts with little time in between.

This guy explains it pretty well:


First of all, one long straw man rant. Nobody is saying hunts are op since they were returned to normal. Except one stupid kid on this forum.
Here’s what needs to be addressed by Classic team if they give a crap about balance:
“KOTG is not THAT op” - acknowledges it is op. Scale it back to pre 1.28 numbers. Moonwell buff is indirect buff to any hero. Tranquility is also now broken, much too quick cooldown, much too concentrated HPS. Keep the 3 second invul, revert channeling time and HPS.
DH got nerfed- not very much. Still can use in high level matches and have success.
Alchemist- Not confined to just NE. Acid bomb is still OP. Any race can pick him second and it is a good, if not the best option. For a patch that was supposed to add hero choice diversity, it has seriously killed any such decision making.
MGs-nerf. Too cheap. 350 gold is a joke. Resistant and hardend skin upgrades are the most broken thing in the game. Ultimates need to work on MGs so elf players can’t just trade all game until both players have transmute, except the entire elf army can’t be transmuted, while any unit any race builds to counter MGs can be.
Damage reduction by 12 is also absurd on top of normal armor upgrades and easy (and already buffed) methods of healing elf has.

So basically you didn’t address any of the things streamers and top players are actually giving feedback about being broken. Nice job.
Additionally, you’re the idiot going around these forums telling everyone who has a technical difficulty with installing, desync, etc. to remove maphack and everything should work fine. I actually took the time to read what you wrote, but why should anyone actually care what such a simple minded and negative person has to say about the game?

  1. I understand that KOTG is OP (I mean… I stated it in my post after all). But everybody on the forum is saying Entangling Roots is OP, and not the other buffs KOTG got.

  2. Almost nobody on this forum talks about top players not named Moon or Grubby. They always bring them up and want them to balance the game based on them. It’d be like the NFL rewriting their rules and restructuring the game based on the inputs of Bill Belichick and Sean Payton. I agree balance should be based on tournament/professional/top players. But not just the ones champions/most popular players.

  3. The last part has nothing to do with this thread


How about Infi saying in a post match interview that his opponent (Lyn) played much better than him, and that he just abused elf to win.

It does because if you want people to take your posts seriously, you should take theirs seriously. You troll, and unintelligently at that, and then you want people to think what you say matters? Are you familiar with the old robot saying DOES NOT COMPUTE


it’s funny that people think KOTG is op when in reality, he’s a strong early game hero that loses more and more utility as the game goes on. all his abilities are dispellable, and treants late game require:

  1. positioning (if there are no trees around then you don’t get them)
  2. they can be mass dispelled…all races cept elf have viable ways to deal with them (wisps are the least cost effective way to deal with treants…they cost 60 gold and use food space which matters in high lvl games where you pay attention to upkeep)

The current blizz balanced team has no experience with high lvl gameplay so they are moving too fast with nerfs…we’re gonna see elf back to 1.14 where they were weak, and then at last they get buffed again. let the meta play out…right now as it is, we’re seeing human and undead dominate elf players late game.

elf has a strong early game which is necessary to keep games even til the mid-late game… it has been like this for a long time.


Yes you know more than every top player of the game. Guys we need to get this dude hired on at blizzard to save the game!


you sound like a crybaby honestly. and every top player doesn’t give the best feedback. you’re prolly too new to the game to remember when Tillerman (at the time of Beta ROC was a "top player) and had all tier 3 air do piercing dmg. that was a mess to fix.

anyway, get to top 25 on ladder before you comment on anything soul. you don’t know what you’re talking about.


Blizzard, hire this man immediately for balance fix. He’s top 25 on bnet ladder, WhErE aLl ThE tOp PlAyErS pLaY


Been rank 1 2v2/3v3/4v4 back when the game had a large base.

Played tournament league solo.

I dont do it anymore but if Grubby, Lyn, Infi, Th00 are saying imbalance…i believe them over some forum scrub.

P.s. being top 25 now just means you play alot, not that you are good. You not knowing this makes me recant my statement. You should NOT work at blizzard.


i was also a top 2v2/3v3/4v4 player back when the game “had a large base”. it wasn’t hard to do - and top 25 with a 90+% win rate is not “playing a lot” - it’s skill. if you want to 1v1 me though feel free let’s get it done.

and i never implied i wanted to work at blizzard.

PS: Grubby said on stream multiple times that human is strong and have great armies (He said it on the 01/09/2018 stream as well for your reference) and that Elf is feels weaker. He also went on to talk about bears possibly needing buffs in.

and honestly if you play 3’s and 4’s you shouldn’t call anyone a scrub…but like i said i’ll 1v1 you and i promise you i’ll beat you convincingly and then we’ll see who the scrub is? :slight_smile: don’t dodge play me!


8 days later bro? You and this posr are old news


figured’ you would dodge the 1v1 challenge.

forum troll is troll. see ya :slight_smile:


Im 50 dollars per hour on my profession. I will give you 30 minutes of games but you need to paypal a minimum of $25 to ride this coaster.


That one was pretty pathetic ahahaah


you work for peanuts btw.

yeah i figured you would dodge :slight_smile: ez.