It's needed a Patch to Balance H vs UD

In my experience, now, Humans doesn’t have any opportunity against UD because Human doens’t have dispel until middle game. If UD comes with Crypt Lord with 5 beatles, more skeletons, it’s impossible for the human player to get an expa, so most of the times humans will lose.

I think that it’s very important to get a patch that could add a dispel item to the Arcane Sanctum to counter an early rush with the Crypt Lord, maybe replacing the Lesser Clarity Potion. Also, because the necromancers can summon without any upgrade, while priest needs time to upgrade the dispel feature.

Another very crucial patch would be upgrade to reduce time to upgrade dispel feature for priests and increment their HP. Or in other hand, increment the mana cost and the time to summon skeletons for the necromancers that are still without upgrades. Also, reduce the Meat Wagon capacity.

An alternative patch but not less important could be do not allow to summon skeletons from pigs, sheeps and other animals in the map.

In addition, since patch 1.32.6 the Crypt Lord can impale air units. That’s too much.

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Hire Troll Shadow Priest - there is your dispel. Hire Troll berserker - there is your ranged damage against Beetles.

Yes its possible for HU to get an expansion, even if it means losing peasants. UD needs to be aggressive for otherwise UD gets run over with mass Knights/Gyros or Tanks due to Human economy advantage. HU vs UD has been the most timing-based matchup in the entire game. Very much like Starcraft 2.

UD doesn’t have dispel until 3.5 by the way and is the only race that is cimpletely unable to play the game without teching to t3 because of this. They also make us of the Troll Shadow priest like any other race.

Not being able to summon off of critters is clearly a troll suggestion.

yes the matchup is currently impossible for human. The only way to beat ud was 2 base vs 1 base but now with this completely unnecessary buff UD can fast expand and creep the entire map better then human can. Priests dispel is not very effective at all considering heal gets prioritized over dispel. (which means if your spamming dispel they’ll ignore it until it’s done healing, you literally gotta move to cancel the heal and then cast dispel) and the range of dispel makes priests very vulnerable.

Level 2 beetles are stronger then rifles/footmen and with ghouls/fiends and skeles it is almost impossible to engage with UD. You will always be overwhelmed.

At level 2 they can impale and surround you with beetles making it impossible to stop their expansion. One frost tower with acos healing it can also outheal a 50 food army so literally there’s no way to punish an UD fast expansion.

impale range is ridiculous and there is no safe distance for your shadowpriest/priests to escape the wrath of the CL.

Even if you get to t3 the ud’s tri hero and army >human’s. basilisk is a troll. Tanks get owned by beetles. Gyro’s get countered by kiting and fiends and knights get countered by banshees.

UD vs Hu was 60/40 in favor of UD when it was just the DK but now with the CL the masters ranking on w3champions is 70/30 in favor of UD.

Your only hope is that the UD is bad and doesn’t know how to play

2 Likes

You are not giving a fair assessment of the match up and just shutting out points being made.

First of all, priest have a stupid AI problem much like garg AI, Tod mentioned this in his town hall with other pros and they all agreed. So yes priest dispel is currently a bit screwed up but it doesnt mean you rely solely on that unit for counter CL.

Second, a combination of priest and breakers can be more effective if you really are concern about beetles, breakers and zap mana from CL denying him using both beetles and impale. Any beetles he makes you can steal with breakers and dispel anything else like skeletons.

Oh man water elemental level 1 is stronger than a ghoul must nerf that!!!
See the thing is summons are meant to be strong in the early game and then become obsolete later.

Lastly, are you really gonna complain about impale and at the same time add a cold tower to the equation? Why are you bothering you attack an expo that you know you cant stop without losing severe casualties? This reminds me of when Undeads would attack HUman fast expo and know they couldnt take it down without losing units. Oh my its like an alternate reality or something. You should instead be expanding yourself or creeping instead just like undeads would do. Happy was the only one who pressured humans because he is that good, mediocre forum posters and general gamers cant do that.

I wouldnt use stats from pads ladder or have you forgotten that the community is split on where they are playing and others have just stopped playing altogether. That data is taking a very small population of players.

The only hope for HU is that they start using their brain.

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I wouldnt use stats from pads ladder or have you forgotten that the community is split on where they are playing and others have just stopped playing altogether. That data is taking a very small population of player

obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about so im not addressing the rest of your post.

so your again going to disregard things because you dont agree with it. wow I know to ignore you completely now since you have no intention of real discussion, just your typical " IM RIGHTA!!@!!!@" talk.

People are playing on pads ladder, netease, and on this nonexist ladder we got in reforge which means the community is SPLIT. Yea i got no idea what Im talking says the guy who cant even argue out of a paper bag. Keep failing more, Ill go get the popcorn.

Yeah that’s why you aren’t able to have 6 elementals out on the field at once kappa.

Shingle, idk why you continue to argue with these betas ofc they don’t want to see their new favorite abuse nerfed

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I mass ghoul garg with solo dl or dk lich fiends i dont CL because its actual it actually sucks in long run, but yea keep on with the false narrative

The problem is you actually suck in the long run it’s not CL

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Coming from the person who only goes into threads to insult people you dont agree with. I looked through your post history every single time it was about balance you insulted someone in the thread, even in threads where it was a poster bringing up the game being toxic to beginners you also insulted someone saying they have no challenging matches.

Great personality and debating skills this guy has…

Couple of noobs talking about balance. LoL. First learn not to make typical mistakes in game , learn some strategies, learn timing, creep routes. Balance talk is for pro’s , not for noobs.

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thats not true, hiring a troll means two single target dispels and he is out of mana. The crypt lord comes with 6 beetles and skellies all the time. It is not enough, and also the troll is not available on all maps. thats not a solution

Most of the matches last 15 to 20 minutes. So, most of the games are defined in T1. Now the UD have an abusive advantage with the Crypt Lord in T1. Can expand very fast and can do an early attack with severly damage in T1. The rest of the game is just a painly try to resist before to surrender for humans.

If you play UD and don’t use the Crypt Lord, you have to take a look to patch 1.32.6. Also, the CL have high HP, so if you have the DK as second hero healing the CL it’s an OP combination.

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What? Have you even watch any games or played the game? If you are still in Tier 1 after 20 mins you should not be talking about balance.

Its like he never heard of DK Lich + Orb nuke.

Honestly I think your just a troll, 3 post count says it all.

Did anyone else even notice this statement from his original post? This whole thread was a waste of time, after reading that statement.

I dont think Hu vs UD is a unfair matchup.

Put 1-2 towers at your base/expansion. Beetles cant deal with towers alone.
This will force the CL to use his Beetles combatively rather than in a harassment fashion.
Buy a dispel troll at the merc camp, dispel them Beetles+Skeletons that he’s being forced to use combatively, because you put towers at your assets.

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Humans already found the answer. It was quite obvious at first, but they didn’t want to admit it. The answer to CL is Spellbreakers. Just like vs any melee strength hero with strong spells. Just like vs Tauren Chieftain. Breakers are immune to impale and steal beetles, rendering the CL useless. They also remove Curse and apply it to UD units.

Ontop of this you can go for heavy Gryphon harass with 1 Dragonhawk to disable UD towers at the expo. Especially on maps like Terenas stand. Human can keep picking off acolytes from the haunted goldmine while UD will be forced to send Fiends to defend. But Gryphon riders are much more mobile, offering HU the ability to creep the map faster and gain an advantage.

This has been employed by many asian players and is one of the reasons not many asians were playing CL in the first place. I recommend checking out Warcraft3Art on youtube, you will find many games from TH000 who has been destroying UD players using the CL.

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This is what I mentioned earlier about using the spellbreakers, but these unskilled forum poster do not understand how this game works. They only argue to try and be right but fail so miserably at it.

You guys need to learn to experiment for counters yourself and quit complaining about things that have barely been a strat for a few months.

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Too right. I went a mass summon strat vs human as Cryptlord, Rexxar and Firelord. I creeped the map fast, early expo, got strong level leads on all my heroes, and won head on against their units and heroes. It wasn’t until they massed Spell Breakers that they stole all my summons making my heroes pretty much useless, and wiped my army out too. I realized how useless it was to go mass summons, unless it was vs UD, NE or Orc next time :stuck_out_tongue: I knew I was going to lose going a mass summon’s build vs humans easier then the other races, but I had that strat on my mind all day and only wanted to play one game. It’s strong if played well, and not in favourable terms of losing summons easy such as spell breakers. I could handle dispel I reckon, just keep spamming summons until their anti-casters go broke, then pop armor devotion and any other things to add pressure, but spell breakers are a different kind of dispel where they gain + gain.

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Ever since I joined this forum, I read about how bad the Crypt Lord was. Suddenly the devs listen and buff it, enabling UD to finally do anything other that DK/Lich. And all other race players lose their minds because they need to learn new strategies. You do know this is a strategy game, right?

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Infi got the only working strat atm to beat undeads.

Offracing orc against undead