Human cannot play against Night elf now: TOO IMBALANCED

The battle is too unbalanced now: DH+wells makes it is IMPOSSIBLE for Human to expand. While if play in one mine vs one mine, one DH can beat the whole human army, and druid of bear is much stronger than footmen+rifles that human can build at T2.

The recovery of Spring well should be nerfed: currently it gives DH three times to immo Human, although Human defending once is hard enough (see this Sok (HU) vs Lawilet (NE), the Human expands perfectly, but DH comes back twice.)

And the cost (gold, wood, time etc) of NE to upgrade to T3 army (including the orb) should be increased. Single mine Human and Orc are not able to up to T3.

In the recent TPL, the top 1 Human Fortitude can beat Happy (UD) with 2:1, who beats Colorful (NE) by TWO straight 3:0 (in the final of loser group, you can see how bad the skill of Colorful is compared to Happy. His four wisps stood still and got killed by skeletons for free at game 2. And he forgot to wrap the mine at Game 3. Human player can never afford such silly mistake.).
While when Fortitude (HU) plays against Colorful (NE), there is no chance for Human player to win, even though the Human player has much better micro.


honestly i just get naga sea witch vs that, dh aint got crap on NSW early.

This isn’t a problem except at the highest levels of play. Everyone’s just looking at pro players and crying OP. If you’re a normal player, look at normal games. It’s a totally different situation.

When you start naming the top 10ish players it really takes away from the argument. Balance is different at different levels of play. I’ve whooped plenty of NE butts as human at garbo tier. Most people can’t play like Colorful or =insert pro player here- can.

I don’t mean Colorful plays well, instead I mean his skill is worse than players in other races. Just see how ugly he loses to Happy.
He can beat players in other race just because of the imbalance.

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THAT immol buff PLUS mana drain nerf, lol
human is ok, yes, just fine

“mana drain nerf” TOTALLY FALSE: you just need tor read the patch 1.35 note

You barely have no idea what’s going on now

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Yet despite these claims, no one has ever been able to identify the specific balance issue here in the forums (until this thread, at least). And since whatever this issue is doesn’t seem to be having a lot of influence at lower skill levels, I don’t really feel like it’s the big deal threads like this are making it out to be. This is the first thread that actually does try to identify a problem, but I’m really not sure this is it, because I’ve won plenty of HU vs NE games, with demon hunters and them using their pools, I really don’t think it’s a big issue. I don’t really recall them making any changes to the moon wells themselves, and these complaints are recent. So why is this a problem now and it wasn’t before?

Don’t worry guy, Captain Jack has won plenty of HU-NE games so it’s not an issue. And since he’s never seen a high MMR player they must not exist. Therefore we must not balance the game for them /s

Also according to Jack, nobody has identified these issues…except for the devs, who have announced DH nerf in next PTR in less dead places than this forum. So don’t worry guy, change is coming to immot

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Night elf against human is currently a rigged matchup. In all MMRs of play, it’s with a 3% advantage for the night elf,and for Grandmaster, the number jumps to a 5-6% advantage.
I think the way to look at this would be to address the demon hunter being a one-man army with moon wells, bears are over the top in strength and production speed and the fact that some human units,items and buildings (cannon towers, mechanical critters come to mind) are kind of useless.

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Didn’t say that

Didn’t say that either.

They didn’t really nerf it at all. 1 less damage per tick at level 1 changes basically nothing lol

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2.5% not 3%, and all four races have a less than ideal matchup, it’s not just human. I’ve said this like a thousand times, but I’m not saying nor ever said there are no balance issues. I commented on the fact that everyone is citing pro players and not looking at the whole picture. I can see here that it has gotten worse. But considering what they did to demon hunter I don’t think that was the real issue. That being said: We do have a much larger sample size now than when this dispute first began, and the hu vs NE matchup win rate is fairly consistent across skill levels. So there does seem to be an issue, but given how trivial the tweaks to DH are, I really don’t think that was the main issue.

At the time we started discussing this, the data did not reflect the complaints, except at the pro level. Now we do have better data. Of course it’s too early to say FOR SURE that the targeted changes at DH aren’t going to have an effect, but it seems very questionable to me. The only nerf was the damage per tick of immolation was reduced by 1, at level 1 only. Beyond that, they also reduced the initial mana cost which is a buff. So they compensated a very slightly lower DPS with an increase in mana efficiency. I’m not claiming to be some kind of master here, I’m definitely not, but the impact of these changes, which include a mix of buff and nerf, I really don’t see them swinging a 5% win rate disparity (52.5% - 47.5% = 5% gap).

And again, all races have a weak matchup as you can clearly see here, so where’s all the UD vs Orc and Orc vs Human and NE vs UD complaints?


NE is the only race having advantage against all other three races. Just check the Grandmaster level.

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I can’t agree with you more. DH needs to be nerfed to the last patch state.

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I saw that match SOK (HU) - but sorry, No MK , no Rifles, No Mortars !?!
That Naga does not have synergy there, so I do not think he made the wisest choices, but nah is just my opinion - SOK is Pro and I am not.

NE - is good as it is now, DH compensate other weak units, for example if you go Air now, NE does not have a chance vs copters + rifles + steam engines + blood elf Hawks.
Elf cannot stand against human AA, dryads + hippogriffs are weak, archers also. No other unit can target air, and do not argue with Panda hero, because Panda is not NE unit.

MK has zero chance defending 2 BRs huntress rush+ BP. Half of warcraft players are now using elf. UD and human players are quiting the game. Blizzard, please stop ruining the game. If you do not know how to make balance patch, then roll balance back to 1.20 or 1.27 would do the job.

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Naga Sea Witch is honestly really good in the early game and probably the best thing that human can use against NE and demon hunter. It’s honestly how i’ve found the most success against NE

That game is the proof that is just not the best. She was changed.

Wow, he can stomp entire army and rifles could take down them one by one. I saw this 1.000.000x times in all Videos about how to play human.

By the time huntress and trees are tree, human has no t2 and no blacksmith. No need to mention about rifles. Just admit it. NE is too imba. If you look at the ranking this season, 50% of the top 50 players are elfs. It is insane. A balance game would have roughly 12 each race.

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I admit in early game Elf is best, but Pro players do not loose in 3 min.
But in late game no AntiAir capabilities, human and UD much better. They got Chims but need support for them. Also Bears not the best melle, Tauren + Pulverize + Shamans and even Knights beat them.

idk, with NE I personally feel like my best chances of winning are in the first few minutes, the longer a game lasts the less likely I am to win as human. If I catch the NE player before they finish clearing their first camp using an AoW with NSW and a few footies (since they aren’t building troops) I can shut them down (assuming similar skill level anyway)

Exercise more, harder and stronger, and do not under - perform :smiley: