Since the new patch in 4v4 RT and AT teams can play against each other which creates a massive disadvantage for the RT team… is there a reason this is allowed?
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Lack of games.
Now, the fact is that Blizzard is trying to account for this by changing the MMR calculations for arranged teams, such that they play against better random players.
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Did you read the patch notes? they tweaked the system so that ATs face higher MMR opponents. It probably still needs some adjusment still but that’s “how it’s supposed to be fair.”
It was the answer to the fact that friends can’t play this game together because not enoguh others are ATing.
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There is no math involved for matching RT vs AT. Random teams don’t get a higher, nor even close mmr to match. The weighted effect is for mmr distribution for wins and losses. It was never about playing with friends, since friends can create and join customs. The majority of friends want to play AT vs RT and not AT vs AT. Otherwise all of these friends would have been searching AT prior to the patch. AT was never broken. Also, it’s not as infuriating when you can eliminate 1-3 less potential trolls on your team.
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well even then, the purpose is the same- move people to where they belong in the ranking quickly and then you’re playing against opponents that can actually handle you.
I’m not sure what this means, but when you’re a team of avg 3k vs an AT team avg of 5k, I’m not certain how this is moving anything but your mouse to quit the game. I can only speak on 4s…in a rt vs rt 4s game you have high and low mmr vs 2nd and 3rd highest mmr and the rest are a bit random. Now, in RT vs full AT … you have any given RTers available, barring any mathematical equation, with an emphasis on low search time. As far as partial AT, I’m not certain how that’s working at the moment.
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If it is as you said and the “weight” is to MMR changes and not to the opponents you match with (which is what Blizzard implied in the patch notes) then the effect is that they move up the rankings faster with each game and thus face stronger opponents sooner.
But again, what Blizzard had been implying all this time was that the weight was for matchmaking i.e. if your team’s MMR is 5000 and the opponents are not an AT then it would be matching against a 5200 team (example) instead of another ~5000 team- i.e. make ATs face stronger opponents to offset the advantage that premade groups have.
But I"m just going by your word here. I haven’t heard of anyone talking about unusually large MMR gains/losses when playing as a team. My impression from the entire time the PTR was up, and the final patch notes was that ATs would be pitted against stronger opponents if they were not also an AT.
Either way, they changed something in an attempt to make games more fair.
This issue with 4v4 RT vs AT games has been noted since 2020.
Blizzard made this change to shorten long queue times.
This is a you can’t have your cake and eat it too situation. We can have good RT games and impossible wait times, or we can have less wait times and worse RT games. The best they can do is find the right balance.
Of course if this game was way more popular this would be far less of an issue but, here we are.
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Adding AT vs RT is not an attempt to make anything fair. It doesn’t matter where your mmr is, there is no attempt to match similar mmrs. There are no leagues to help place players in a match suitable for their skill set. MMR values have no weight in 4s matchmaking. Meaning 0-10k can be in a match at any given time. There is no attempt to balance outside of the so called math of placing the top 3 and lowest mmrs. Since mid last season this change in “math” happened making it the best attempt in reforged history to balance and we got it for a 1/2 season. Now it’s back to abusing with friends. It’s one big dumpster and has been lit on fire several times over the launch of reforged. I just take it as it comes, but at no point is it fair.
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No. Adding the weighting is the attempt to make it fair while also allowing friends to play together.
There are two things that some people want:
RT players want fair games and fast queue times
AT players want to play the game… at all.
The goal is to find a way for both groups to be able to enjoy the game. The game itself is inherently unfair whether AT/RT is a thing or not- but that can be mitigated. And that’s the goal of the change.
You just see the AT RT being enabled and can’t see past the fact that changes were made to try to improve the experience over the last time we had this. Even though I generally queue solo I don’t think it should be the only way to play.
And even before- AT / RT games were not inherently impossible. The problem is more people being scared poopless and not even being willing to try.
Provably false. The game is always attempting to do this, the problem is the player pool it has to pick from at any given time doesn’t have enough people with close MMRs and so it has to reach further to find all the players needed to start a game.
THere are several players with 5-6k MMR. Why do I never see them in a game at 3k MMR if it doesn’t try to match similar MMRs?
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Ok man. Whatever you say. Just keep in mind I have 30k games of rt4s experience on my profile.
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I’ve played thousands of games too. What’s your point?
No, it is not true. You can’t just go and create a custom game and play 4v4 or 3v3 becuase you will never find enough players. They did this because it’s the most logical thing to do, why? Because people that have friends can’t play this game with them (I am talking about 3v3 and 4v4), there are not enough players to support solo AT. They also allowed partial teams so players that are playing only RT can get a team with let’s say 2-3 AT in 4v4 and play with them, so the advantage of full AT is much smaller, they also added MMR weight and they will probably adjust it more. They tried for one and half year to let AT play only against At and guess what, in those 2 seasons there were only 10 AT that played 4v4 it was impossible to find a single match, you could spend 3 hours of searching and still not find a game. There are many ways for RT players to adjust, you can always find your own team to play with but AT players can’t do anything when they can’t find a game. Also, TEAM GAME MODES should always prioritize to play with friends!
This.
Wait times for AT games have historically been so long that it’s basically impossible. And then even fewer people try because they know it won’t work.
Like I said- the point of making this change is to balance the desire of people to play with friends with reasonable queue times against the perceived fairness of games.
I would propose one additional change to facilitate this. New AT teams should start at a higher base MMR and their MMR should be displayed from game 1. Otherwise, people are still going to bail when they see a full team with no MMR displayed, because any MMR weighting will not have affected them yet.
I would suggest to make matchmaking so AT searches only for other AT in first 2 minutes and after that normal like they implemented because this change will make more AT come back and it will be easier to find matches.
So, abuse me again, huh? Okay, one thing I can promise: you won’t abuse me. That’s not going to happen. The moment I see you coming to have fun with your trap that’s legal again, disappear like the wind. I hope everyone does the same, but I know you’ll always have those who don’t know who you want to have fun with on RT. Fine, you can do it again, but I guarantee it won’t be me
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People can style point it any way they want, but anyone saying that it’s objectively better, more fair, whatever - really just likes steam rolling a bunch of RT matchups with their friends. And I get it, there’s fun to be had there. But let’s call it what it is. Anyone who says otherwise is full of it.
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Nobody is abusing you. You are making your own choice to play with randoms, and that comes with the potential for griefers, TKs, and other issues. I am not trying to defend every AT because there are some that are playing only cheese tactics, we just leave such games and search for another one you can do the same. Who even cares for win rate and stats?
Players pointed this out at launch. What really makes Arrange Team broken is that you’re forgetting to mention UNIT SHARE. You think your 4v4 Rantom Team is gonna give unit share control for their bad macro? Meanwhile, AT abuse Unit share, discord, getting that major advantage.
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