Fixing Orc (balance and rework)

In the past Orc were the race that relay on there Op Heroes (Blademaster and Far Sear) to be competitive vs other races.

Also their are the only race that cant creep due to weak Burrow building and is force to attacking and denying opponent creeps to survive early game.
Their units are kind weak and they have problem expending.

Since their heroes were justifiably nerfed and they still have hard time expending and have weaker units compare to other races they need some core changes to be competitive to other races.

So whats are Orc problem :

  • Weak units.
  • Hard to expend (so maybe you can mass week units and overwhelm your opponents).
  • Hard to creep early game due weak Burrow building.

So whats the solution :

Weak units : their Head hunter just got buff from 350 hp to 375hp witch make unit more competitive.

Next unit that need buff is Tauren :

Tauren (buff) :

Build time : 44 sec to 40 sec
Movment speed : 270 to 290
Collision Size : 48 to 42
Pulverize (Upgrade) : 100g175w to 75g 150w

Rider (nerf) : Ensnare now slows 50 % repair rate of the workers instead of preventing them compliantly.
(nerf to Orc base trade all ins)

Hard to expend solution :
Orc Great hall (build time buff) : 145 sec to 135 sec (or 130 sec)
Original buff was 135 .

Hard to creep early game due weak Burrow building solution :

War Mill upgrade buff : spiked barricades : add + 3 armour to burrow (so cant be easily killed) (only to burrow not to watch tower)
So this upgrade should give you opportunity to creep instead of harassment so you would not worry early game that your base would get easily destroyed.

That s some of Orcs problems that could should be fixed in order to make race all around better to play and more balanced and competitive to other races .

Ty for reading :slight_smile:

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  • Weak Orc units ? Wow you do not know what u talk about. Maybe wyvernes are weak but insane damage , or wolf riders weak but also insane damage… but other units are not weak at all.
  • hard to expand ? here somewhat I agree, of course slower than other races.
  • creep with burrow? nah, make 3 grunts + hh and creep like normal players. You just thinking about cheese tactics if you say about burrows … cheese is for pro…

Buff back HH - here I agree with you, they nerfed HH not justified, so they should restore the original HH!

Plus ORC’s got shamans, doctors with heal + traps, bats, kodo-beast - can swallow units in no time, scroll of speed, raiders best and cheapest healing scroll. Plus kind of cheat Pillage ability that compensate slow expo !!!

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No you misunderstood brother :smiley:.

Orc most of the time dont creep because if you do your opponent for example Human player will rush to your base and kill your burrows.So you lose a game.

So as an Orc due to weak burrows you are forced to push Human player (to atc) so he cant creep and get lvls so he dont kill your base after.

And my solution is make war mill spiked barricades buff only on burrow that give burrow + 3 armor or something to make them stronger early game so they dont die easy.

And give Orc ability to creep and play passive instead of pushing every other game and forced to deny opponent creeps (different play stile)…

Other solution is maybe give war mill split fortified armour upgrade for burrows(only) on T1 for 50 g 100 w.

Orc seems to be quite balanced. On W3C,

2200 MMR, version 1.36

Orc: 51% against Human, 52% against Undead, 46% against Night Elf.

1600 MMR, version 1.36

Orc: 47% against Human, 50% against Undead, 51% against Night Elf.

The only issue seems to be: the higher the skill level, the more unfavorable it is for Orc against Night Elf.

I believe 1.36.1 will nerf night elf and Orc would be in a much better shape.

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This post is more about design then balance :slight_smile: .

Ability to easier expend ability to chose creep (little bit passive play) instead of harassment.

Make game more fun for Orc.

As for balance on top lvl Orc are struggling vs Undead especially and Lyn is switching to Ne in some match-ups and that is weird …:stuck_out_tongue:

I just do not like small maps - Blizzard should remove small maps!

On normal sized maps or big ones, things are Balanced, because when HU reach orc burrows, militia wear off. And grunts way more stronger than footman, TC stomp can disable them or FS wolves are insane. Even SH serpent wards, just have some manna, can protect a base and cause insane damage.
And when things advance, orc have REINFORCED DEFENSE, but noob players do not even understand so they save on that. That’s why you think HU is better than ORC.

If you give reinforced burrows from game start, you will see burrow rush. I wish to see some simulations but for sure I do not want that in a real game.

Wyvern damage is quite dependent on Poison, so they are better for hit and run tactics than straight fights.

The DPS of Raiders and Grunts is close to the same before armor-types come into play. Raiders really only deal 50% extra damage to unarmored and fortified units, and that comes at a cost of dealing half damage to medium units like archers.

The advantages of Raiders are mostly Ensnare (grounding air units and immobilizing targets) and medium armor (which cuts most sources of damage to 50% or 75%).

I do agree that Wolf Raiders are not weak though. Raiders have 813 to 1220 effective health as long as the attacker doesn’t have “normal” damage.