Just wanted to put my two cents in as sadly this rework is more important to me then the next federal election and want to make sure the developers know where I vote.
Starting with the art style itself. Its definitly not what I had thoight the developers would have went with but it is what I wanted. When wc3 first came out and it had the hidden zergling and hydralisk in the campaign I would have killed for sc1 to have been made using the warcraft engine. The qrt style wasnt starcrafts but it gave sc a new life and a more organic feel. Once sc2 came out I could have killed for wc3 to be made in sc2s engine. and you can damn well believe Ill feel the same about sc2 being made in reforges style once I see the new hidden hydralisk.
Iv heard the issue that users have mentioned with unit identification on the battlefield. the biggest counter argument to that is, is that it was said you can reveet to the old style if prefered. For those that want the new with the pop off the old, perhaps something like RA3 could be optionally implimented where there are unit outlines (definitly optional because that helped ruin ra3 for me). I also assume this isnt just going to be an all or nothing. With the sliders for graphics perhaps a middle could be attained where you have the increased quality but allow you to tell the difference more. ie triangle heads with hd eyes ;). I will say that Im also a massive fan of spellforce but I lost interest with spellforce three. Part of that was to do with the enhanced visuals taking away from the gameplay. the world felt iverly xluttered and units all seemed to meld into one pile until a fight was over. Perhaps that can be avoided by keeping lush grass and exessive doodads to a minimum.
finally from watching the trailers and gameplay videos, I still have a sense of cartoony. Primarily from proportions. But enhacned with the same voiceclips from my childhood. Maybe it will be different when I getba chance to play it but thus far Im very happy with where its going. The only thing that worries me is the changes to make it closer to what wow is today. Ie the rework of stratholme. On one hand wow landto me was always a sampling of what the actual world would be. for example wow stratholme was only a district of a much larger city. more then 3 fqrms in elyw nn forest ect. on the other hand it allows for a changed playthrough of the campaign which can breath life into something millions have already seen. I guess that will just have to remain to be seen if they can keep the feel of each campaign map.
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I am just afraid Reforged will end up as SC:R. Because it was build around pro scene, while SC:R looks better, it’s still plays like s**t from 20 years ago, animations are bland, pathing is idiotic, so is AI, gameplay limitations are still there etc.
But I understood that. SC pro community is thriving, and they needed them. SC:R wasn’t as big service for general public and old players as it was service for “pros”. However, Warcraft 3 is different. Pro scene is pretty much dead, or at least, very niche. But Warcraft 3 is awesome game and with right improvements and redesigns, it could restart whole esport thing, it could be for casuals or semi-competitive players, story has still so much to offer and it could be just base for future new content and stuff.
But next month or so, Blizzard invited Warcraft 3 pro players to HQ, to tell them their feedback. And it’s already rolling in “it’s too much different from Warcraft, it’s too realistic, cartoony all the way, I don’t like it, don’t change anyhing please, we love warcraft as it is” etc. Will blizzard just accept this as “voice of the community” and dumb down whole reforged experience because “pros said so”? I am afraid they will. And it will kill true potential of whole reforged.
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I agree with BigJay. I’ve been playing the Warcraft series since 1998’ish.
The graphics look amazing on the reforge and I don’t want to get in the team’s way at all. I think what they are doing so far is incredible <3
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Ye just FIX THE WEIRD BLACK ARMOUR ON THE ORC SHOULDERPADS AND WEAPONS
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I think this is a matter of getting used to a new, more realistic art style. For which I am completely fine with.
But they need to work on making the unit, building and environmental textures blend in together more smoothly. Some of the models and colors stand out too much compared to others. Most of the unit models are way too detailed compared to the environment they are placed in.
Also, they should keep armor detail of regular units at minimum. Otherwise they stand out too much compared to hero units and it makes it harder to distinguish between them. This is especially the case with footmen, since they are now as tall as paladins.
I know this is far from the final art style, but I think it’s helpful to give some early feedback ahead of time so they are pointed in the right direction.
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this <3
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I agre ^^
Indeed I think if they don’t improve the current art style, almost all competitive players will stick with the original graphics.
The updated art may look o.k. for cinematics, but for fast-paced gameplay, it’s just not functional.
The new art is visually too noisy; units don’t have discernible silhouettes or features that can be recognized at a glance (an example that Grubby brings up is the white outline on Footmen shields). The original game art was clearly designed for immediate readability. The new art team should have taken note from that.
I’m sure most of the pro players will bring this up during their feedback rounds with Blizzard and I hope they’re not too proud to change this at this point.
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Watching gameplay videos, I strongy disagree. It’s still very clear. It’s not more noisy than SC for example.
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The new graphics, although unfinished and rough around the edges look awesome.
As for undistinguishable units argument I must say that its a matter of getting used to the new models. I’m sure if you play it for a couple hours you’ll get used to it.
Besides, if you don’t like the new graphics, you can always switch back to old assets. They’ve said that the old assets have been redone in a way to keep the classic look while getting upresed.
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I completely agree. It’s not like they’re removing the option to switch back to the old models.
I, too, am a nostalgia centric purist but I think they are doing an amazing job with the new assets.
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I personally wouldn’t mind the metalness, maybe tinker with the unit distinction that Grubby points at.
My first point is that the colours feel off - they need to be more LIVELY to match W3 better - the further you go from SC2’s bland palette(my opinion) and kind of dim lighting (compared to W3), the better.
My second point is the portrait - I think this top down look blows up the unit you look at like a lens, I think it needs to be normal 90 degree look that won’t make their shoulderguards look monstrous like in Arthas portrait. Arthas also looks like made from plastic in the portrait.
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I love the new graphics! need some more polishing for some units and buildings but overall looks great!
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Honestly I’m really worried about the campaign changes.As a person who never played or felt strongly about WoW,I always hoped for more of the same(warcraft 3 campaign introduced me to games with story).I wanted warcraft 4 - a continuation of the story,more the rexxar style campaign which was my favourite.The rework of stratholm is what I dread.
As for the art style,what grubby says rings true,however it doesnt touch me as much as I am not and never was a competitive player.
I think the new graphics are stunning. The characters look more realistic and less cartoonish which I am a big fan of. For example, the old paladins in the original WC3 had exaggerated body parts such as having very wide bodies and large hands. The new paladin on the reforged website looks far more realistic with less exaggerated body parts (less cartoonish look). I love it and I hope blizzard sticks with this more realistic look. Just my opinion.
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Im fine with the new graphics they look good, I would much rather have some of the models made to seem more similar to the original wc3.
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The chosen route for graphics is a really good choice. Of course, I haven’t played it and I’m able to acknowledge the fact that improvements could perhaps be made. If that is the case, then go for it! I’m really eager to see more undeads and nightelves. Again, the overall approach seems right.
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Personally i think that the textures are a bit too realistic. I think that the models on the Alterac’s Pass map in HOTS are somewhere between the new models and the classic. They dont look too cartoony and not too realistic. It 'd be great to have something like that.
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I’d say that the new graphics and animations look stylish and are pure quality. Yet the game’s readability is going places since Warcraft 3 visual language is shifted in a direction ‘best envisioned’ by new artists.
The thing is that this direction sways the view so heavily on the graphics itself, that the game we cared about for more than a decade is no longer seen behind it! Long-remembered silhouettes are gone, and that’s like cutting most players’ game sense in half.
Item icons are mostly redrawn from scratch and do not resemble original ones at a glance. Have you seen new Robe of Magi +6? It’s just another image, not a reforged one.
I don’t know if someone’s expecting review videos titled “Fiddling with game’s visual key: done right” but I’m afraid there would be none.
For me, Warcraft always had a well-defined and crisp style, not in unit models and textures but in a visual as a whole: every icon had those cool firm borders (who thought that they are redundant now? do they take too much space on those realistic Worker images?) and every icon could easily be distinguished from another thanks to their concise style. Now they are redrawn, as if in a marathon way, and look like items from child-games like League of Legends.
Units need their according silhouettes in order to be seen without looking (most important skill in Warcraft, by the way), I’d suggest to have a ‘silhouette guidelines’ on each unit-type since skins are soon to be in order. Footman and Militia need their shields back (proportions and texture); Skeleton Warriors had some armor before, now they’re naked and I died laughing; Ghouls and Zombies are very cool, truly HD themselves.
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I’m torn on this one.
My initial reaction to the new models was “Wow that’s freaking awesome” - particularly the Orcs. I felt like, if the devs at the time had the processing power to do so, that’s what they would have gone for. It feels a lot like the Warcraft cinematics. I bought into the “every game is cartoony” angle, because, it’s pretty damn true. League, Dota, HotS, etc all have very similar aesthetics.
On the flip side, I’m also hearing the debate that it isn’t particularly “Warcraft” in the regards to the way the “Warcraft” aesthetic has grown in reality through WoW. This seems kind of contradictory though only in the sense that a lot of the people making the argument for cartoony graphics are the same people making the arguments that they’re worried appeasing the WoW community will negatively influence WC3R. I am not 100% sure I buy that the original WC3 graphics were as cartoonish as they are, based on a purely art driven agenda. It was the first 3D RTS from Blizz and we all seem to forget just how little memory 256mb of ram was (inb4, “I played WC3 on even LESS ram” - ok, whatever). A lot of people reference WoW for Blizzard’s cartoonish look, but honestly, WC1, WC2, SC1, SC2, Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Diablo 3, not all that cartoonish.
Personally I’d like them to land somewhere in the realm of SC2. Make the talking heads really high detail, and all the cutscenes and stuff high detail, and make the units high detail but lower poly. You could even go higher detail than SC2 but try to keep the poly count the same. I feel like lower poly is important for faster RTS. I think of high detail RTS and I think of Total War: Warhammer, and while that’s cool, and pretty, it’s not entirely “Warcraft”
I am interested to see how Blizzard approaches this discussion. I think on some level they need to tone it down even if just a little bit in terms of the in-game unit models, but otherwise I like what they have for art.
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You can have HIGH poly models but less muddy textures and some readablity fixes Tovarish24, doesnt have to be LOW poly - its a art style choice not a poly choice
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