Hello Blizzard!
I just wanted to ask one thing of you: Take in the specific feedback from the community around the 1.32.9 PTR patch. Many ppl have come with adjustments that are way less extreme than what you have proposed. I hope the reason you proposed big changes was to gauge the response and adjust from there. I like some of the ideas you put forth, but human needs some nerfs as well (Clap, spell breaker HP (would make human mirror better too, favoring knight play)), just to name a few. Moreover, wisp nerf is too extreme, same with Stomp and DK aura. Maybe make smaller changes and not favouring only human, the most successful race?
I really hope you listen to community, and btw, we can all collect ideas from the top players if you want, all you need to do is ask, the community is strong!
Regards from a wc3-loving player.
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Frost Wyrm changes are missing. So are changes/overhaul to Necromancers. Gargoyle AI must get fixed. This was promised to be in the game with Reforged. Its still not fixed. Destroyer missing 25% of their attacks needs to get fixed.
Double Cargo Size of Raiders is needed to stop braindead haunted goldmine destruction which many Orcs are doing against UD. There is no way to prevent it if Orc finds a scroll of the beast. They drop in Raiders and Heroes via zeppelin, destroy the mine and prevent repair and TP out. Rinse and repeat while getting up expo. Lyn has already destroyed Happy with this and many players just pick Orc on concealed hill to abuse the Lab position and use the same Zeppelin harass.
Remove the ability of Kodos to devour units 4 supply and above is an easy change that should be implemented right away. It improves UD vs Orc matchup and allows UD to make better use of Abominations and spread disease Cloud. While having minimal impact on other matchups. Thats exactly how you want to balance the game.
Basilisk, you are heavily biased in favour of Undead in these forums. Pls take all races into account.
All the best.
2 Likes
The patch is fine, it seems Blizzard has learned from the past few years now not to ask biased pro gamers for balance suggestions. And clap and spellbreakers are fine as they are.
lol
Blizzard’s ptr patch was torn apart by both the community, pro players and casters. The fact that Human as the best performing race in all of warcraft 3 ONLY GETS BUFFS is absurd. The current world champion is Human after a Human vs Human finals. Humans have dominated the tournaments and player earnings for the vast majority since 2003 till 2020!
Orc vs HU will be unplayable if this PTR goes live unchanged. Orc has 0 answer for Breakers and Clap is way too strong. Blademaster was effecitvely removed as a viable hero choice, just because of how Clap diminishes his effectiveness. Now Orc has switched to Farsser + TC. With this, Breakers counter both heroes and turn them into useless attack click units. And now Blizzard wants to nerf TC more. Thats just terrible. Clap and Breakers need a nerf. Otherwise Orc is forever stuck running away from a 6+ Breaker Human army because there is no way to win a fight against them. The only way to win is by constant laming or a sudden mass Wyvern switch (see Fly vs Sok on Echo Isles when Fly banked 1,4k gold for mass Wyvern switch).
Elf vs Human is already in favour of Human. Now Wisps get a giant nerf. Human lategame army is already much stronger than Elf lategame army with lots of inner fire. Clap is still a direct counter to Bears. +1 dmg on Bears will have almost no difference. However the wisp mana drain nerfs are terrible for this matchup.
UD vs Human is on the verge of becoming Human favoured. Human is always favoured if they get to do their thing. They creep faster than any race. They expand faster than any race. Human must be harassed by all races so others can keep up. Beetles are nerfed 3 patches in a row now. Human can steal them and easily dispell with mercs. They should have received the burrow nerf but the HP nerf and mana nerf needs to be reverted. CL has the least mana and mana regen out of all summon heroes.
If you do not harass Human, they show up at your base with lv 3 AM and 2+ Water Elementals. Other races are vulnerable to Summon harass as Human has been doing for years. Remember Beastmaster + AM push to cancel all T2 buildings by Orc? Or pushing with Rifles against Elf before Bears are finished? Or sending Footmen + AM + water elementals into UD base while teching and expanding?
The new repair changes will mean UD will get completely owned by Tanks and raider lame. Acolytes can no longer repair upgraded Ziggurats vs Tanks. Masses of Gyrocopters own Destroyers completely. Its a very lopsided matchup, but with 10+ Gyros the Destroyers have no chance. Knights kill Fiends in 6-7 hits and now Fiends are slower due to aura nerfs, a massive change.
Every Human will build 1 less Arcane tower if this patch goes through. Thats 2 less towers in total (main and expo). This will mean Human gets 1 additional unit footmen or Rifle or whatever for the cost of 2 towers in every single matchup.
This is absurd. Imagine if UD would suddenly run around with 1 more Fiend in the earlygame, or Orc has 1 more Grunt. Arcane towers are very strong already, can even detect invisible units with upgrades. They must not be buffed!
The game is almost impossible to balance since it was balanced nearly into perfection at 2007 by most perfect gamers and developers at the current time.
My only suggestion how to imporove is just to create new units or spell and look how they effect on the old balance… tuning randomly old unit is bad way to learn how to balance game.
Human definitely needs a buff! I think nerfing night elf and UD CL opening like what you did in PTR is also a great idea! Good patch! Well done! Thank you for taking feedback from the community!
I think the minus 1 armor for breakers in the last patch is not necessary. With that nerf, everyone is going riflemen vs orc now. Is that what BLZ want to see? Breakers are not useful vs ud because of abominator and is a no way vs NE because of giants. It would be a great idea to get the 1 armor back to the breakers.
Currently human vs ud is still very broken because of CL opening. Human can only have both a slow expo and slow tech, which makes the match up unplayable for human. Just have a look at the winning rate of ud vs hum in Europe. If you want to talk about Asia, have a look how high the winning rate of Michael is vs Human while he can hardly win a game vs any match up else. Nerfing CL is really a great idea!
Versus orc, currently Human has a small disadvantage vs HH but I think it would be balanced one breaker has the 1 armour back so that human would have two options.
Elf vs Human is also very broken. Once the giant is ready, no matter how many more gold human mines, elf is going to win. The nerf of giants a really a fabulous change. In the meantime, Warden is too strong in maps where she can easily get to level three. It would be nice if we can shrink the land size near the camp on the right-hand side of the map of EI to match the left. Currently on EI if NE is on the right-hand side, it is a default level 3 warden and then a default win! Shrinking the land size near the camp will create a gamble in the early game— if NE wants a quick level 3, then they will face the risk of early police coming and attract the creep to cancel the tree. If human sends a policeman but no tree is built near the camp, then it is a waste of lumber for human. With the TANK nerf in the last patch, the map TS becomes so favourable to NE. I am glad the map will be removed from major tournaments!
If we remove Infi from the discussion, human hasn’t got a major champion for a while. So a buff is definitely worthwhile.
Why remove Infi? Infi is a random player and hasn’t lost a single match-up vs human using UD CL opening for nearly a year! He won Fly with random, and he also merely lost to Moon with a score of 2:3 using UD.
Why do u mention the earning since 2003? check out the tournament in 2020-2021 to have a good picture of the current balance. And the human champion u mention, is because both humans dodged playing against ud.
In 2021 the 1st place is for 120, 2nd lyn and thirds infi. Is relevant to mention that infi only won 1 tournament, not 2nd place nor 3rd computed. The next human is chaemiko on 9th place. He won 2 tournaments and 2nd in one (dont remember what he won, esl cup maybe?)
In 2020 the 1st place is for infi (and he off raced a lot there). After that, the next hu in earning is th000 in 8th place.
In 2021, the last major tournaments with more than 2 player where won by lyn and happy. Cruncher won one, but it was a 1v1 vs hitman and infi won another which was a 1v1 vs eer0 (which he only one a map with hu, the other maps he won was with ud and orc). If u want to dismiss the EU scene (which is dominated by undeads and foggy) then go to 2020. That year infi won 2 tournaments, th000 got a 2nd palce and sok another 2nd place. Moon alone won 2 majors and got silver in other 3 tournaments. The orcs won 3 majors and got silver on anaheim.
HU is not the most successful race on 2020 (there it was NE or ORC), nor on 2021. 2019 was dominated by infi and th000, but that was 16 months ago.
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