I figure you’re using ‘good’ in terms of your personal value. If that’s the case then yeah, I can see that.
The way I see it though, even a game like Poker is highly competitive, is almost completely based on RNG and luck, yet can be just as intense as any other sport because of the way the game is played. Hell, it’s the definition of a Pay to Win game, since you literally raise the bets so high you force the other player to forfeit.
It’s not my type of entertainment, but I see value in it, and I don’t consider that a trash argument whatsoever. It’s just a different type of game.
If we’re putting this back in context to Warcraft 3 or mobile games, then entertainment is whatever people find value in the games they play. I played Warcraft 3 more than Starcraft back in the day because I liked the concept of leveling up a Hero. Balance-wise, SC is the much superior game with WAY less RNG than Warcraft 3. So the argument goes both ways.
Your comparing card games to video games, but your analogies are wrong. Sure, some games work fine as p2w like Magic the Gathering, but Poker is not a pay to win game if all players start with the same amount. P2W in video games is very different because its about progression vs balance. You might beable to buy better cards in Magic, or play bigger pots in Poker with more money, but the playing field is still pretty much even.
In single player games, p2w is usually a cheap marketing tactic for companies to make more money, but from a gaming perspective it removes the fun or challenge of completing the game. Not sure why anybody would actually support this practice, it only fuels companies to produce cheaper games with more gimmicks like loot-boxes (which by the way are technically illegal)
As for multiplayer games like GTAonline, p2w can make it very difficult for new players to join the fun, and competitive games like RTS shouldnt even allow such stupidity like p2w because it completely ruins any sense of balance.
I dont know why it matters though, Blizzard will probably focus mainly on DLC skins which again IMO is not worth the price tag, but obviously lots of stupid people like playing digital dress up with pretend avatars to feel better about themselves.
In the end though, all that really matters is that players who prefer classic WC3 should still be able to play the same traditional game with people who prefer reforged, since they are supposed to be backwards compatible with each other.
Neither progression nor dress up are gameplay, yet you respect the former and despise the latter. Why?
We were talking about RNG, as far as I understand.
It was half-sarcasm, actually. Of course, HotS is in the gutter IRL. But at the same time, it’s technically a better game than Dota2. But not played (with 30 mil. USD prize pools). Non-existent. How do you reconcile these different modes of reality?
What even is WC3 eSports? A nobler game, a purer one, whose time has passed because the normies play Fortnite and Candy Crush, whereas the normies of yesteryear used to play Dune 2.
Adunai I find it difficult to respond to you cause you are all over the place, you dont understand why I prefer gameplay over dress up, you say progression isnt gameplay, you dont understand that I was talking about p2w and not RNG, and then you acknowledge that your previous post was half-sarcasm, so from now on I will ignore you because I think youre just dumb, this entire conversation has no point cause its not going to change anything in the way blizzard makes games
Define progression. If it’s superficial stuff that nonetheless influences gameplay (gear in WoW that has been acquired via a time sink, gear in Chinese MMOs that has been acquired via money), WC3 has none.
If it’s any superficial stuff, then profile icons are progression - you can play games striving to progress to them.
Other than that, eSport games usually have zero progression. You launch the game, you play a match. The same as TH000 or Moon does.
so when Th000 wins a match, he hasnt made progression in skill or win count? when th000 starts a new match he has a town hall and 5 peons, by the end he has 3 strong heroes, is that not a game of progression? how do we get rank #1 without progression?
If wc3 was p2w th000 would pay 2 start the match with 3 strong heroes, removing any sense of progression within the game, by eliminating the competition through money
You clearly go out of your way to sound smart, but you dont actually understand the very basic essence of what a game actually is, maybe you are not trolling but either way, nothing you say has any meaning you just ramble on a bunch of nonsense to confuse people
Are you taking his physical body IRL as a means of progression in the game? Fascinating. That’s why I say that skill is not [game] progression.
No, it’s normal gameplay. And I can prove it mathematically and logically - he can have 3 level 10 heroes, and yet still lose. See? Whereas if you have a full Naxx gear set on 11 characters in vanilla WoW, you have literally beaten the game officially and mathematically.
…and one building with 1 HP and the enemy worker (non-Wisp) next to it.
Winning is not progression. Winning is pure skill, and that is gameplay.
Exactly, no matter how much I debate with you I’ll never make any progress with you, which is the definition of trolling and I dont care to play your game
You picked one of my posts to troll me, but ignored many of my good posts. And comparing me to MomoiroCrose proves exactly why I have no desire to take anything you say seriously. I gave you the benefit of the doubt when I said maybe you were not a troll, but obviously I should take that back since you clearly are a troll
I am not. I’m trying to make some points. But you are. You are such a troll, you manage to troll yourself.
By the way, it is you who brought up the number of likes we received. Some of the weakest activities I can think of in existence. I never judge people by the number of likes they receive lmao
You dont even understand what progression means within the concept of a game
You only point out anything you can argue with, and ignore anything you can agree with
And you can ignore the fact that I have as many likes as you with almost half as many posts, but its clear you post an abundance of non-sense on these forums
You put a WoW player there, and he asks, “What is the reason for me to play?” Here, no progression. Because WC3 players play WC3 for the sake of playing WC3, i.e., growing [up] as personalities.
