4v4 RT is just a disaster now

General Discussion
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Came back after a couple years or so to enjoy some 4s RT again, but…

  1. RT vs AT is a complete disaster, whoever decided to reintroduce this should be ashamed, and I was shocked when I first noticed it. Every time you are vs an AT team there is a leaver, in the rare instance there is not, the game is a strong uphill battle where you win perhaps 10% of the time (so I am not surprised by the insta leavers)

  2. There is a constant ANNOYING bug where sometimes after a long game is finished the win does not count on your record. Strangely enough never seems to happen to losses. 20-30+ min games resulting is nothing is a big disappointment to say the least.

Looking at the top 4s ladder, I can see a lot less activity compared to previously, so these things are clearly having an impact as people are queueing less. Guess I will also be one less person until things get fixed (if they ever do, which seems unlikely)

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I don’t see this at all. Please put some statistics and numbers to your claims, because everything looks pretty normal to me. There has, however, been some evidence that Bliz adjusted the matching algo recently without telling anyone to make games with a huge MMR spread (i.e. like 5k+ players in 2k MMR games) far less likely, which would by the nature of doing so slow queues somewhat.

It really isn’t, using hyperbole doesn’t strenghen you rarguments.

Now, there are problems with this. but “complete disaster?” give me a break. I hardly ever see ATs in the first place, so while it’s not the greatest thing it isn’t even that frequent of an occurrence.

But the only reason this is a problem is becuase of the way this game implements grouping. Most games have groups and solo players mixed with no issues at all. No one talks about it, no one complains about it. So why is only in War3?

Well, there’s anaswer to that question: Because War3’s team system makes automatic smurfs out of everyone that groups, even if they’re not trying to. THis game creates a unique MMR for every different group of people you play with, and this means even if you have 3 people stay the same and 1 person swaps out, Bam, your MMR is reset to the default and you play placements again. In other words: EVERY TEAM IS TREATED LIKE BRAND NEW PLAYERS WHEN THEY’RE ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT.

The fix is simple: Get rid of team specific MMR. and just use your regular MMR. Problem goes away overnight, guaranteed. Friends can play together and playing against groups will no longer feel impossible.

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In reality, Blizzard simply wanted to allow AT players to dominate RT, thus driving more players away from the game and saving them the cost of server fees.

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“I hardly ever see ATs in the first place”

Last 3 games have been vs ATs

First two are insta leavers on my team, 3rd game brain-dead allies so no chance.

I see it ALL THE TIME

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U have 0.01% chance to get 3x normal allin in RT :rofl:

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i suggest you block captainjack

he’s a paid actor whose only role is to undermine legit complaints about blizz poor work

and yes, RT vs AT is a disaster, in every game mode

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You got anything that proves him wrong? I suggest leading with that instead of pointless insults, Pinocchio.

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Only way to have fun and avoid the foolishness of allowing AT vs RT is to leave as soon as you see an AT premade. !stats, if its ridiculous just leave and next, but you have to wait a few minutes so you dont instantly re que into the same premade AT. Go play a quick custom game, then re que.

Ive noticed less ATs in 3v3 RT so I play more 3v3 than 4v4 atm. Im enjoying the game more that I stopped caring about my RT MMR, just leave the games vs ATs and have fun! Im a solo 4k-4.4k player and 3.2- 4.2k RT player for reference. All the points Ive read about how broken the the RT vs AT que now is what Ive been experiencing and are all valid and true. The vast majority of the solo que RT player base does not like the changes.

Dont worry about your RT MMR, just leave, re que after a few minutes, and enjoy the game vs other RT. Solo MMR is the only MMR you should really care about, RT is just for fun, if you go in with that mind set you can have a good time.

Clown decisions by Blizzard require clown solutions from us, the the player base to circumvent their poor choices.

Until they give us solo RT players an “ Opt out option button of vsing AT premades “ or remove AT vs solo RT entirely, people will continue to !stats and instant leave for their gameing time enjoyment.

Grubby’s Second Warcraft 3 invitational tournament is now live BTW! I recommend watching it, its good times.

Its been bringing in new and old players again, and merging / introducing AOE1/2 League of legends, WoW, Dota 2 and other games player bases into Warcraft 3. They and the WC3 community agrees as a whole that allowing AT premades vs solo RT que was and will ALWAYS be a bad Idea.

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This!!! I have never once seen him on the Ladder 3v3 - 4v4 - 1v1 ever…., and he refuses to AT to see what we are experiencing on the 3v3 - 4v4 Ladder….

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Another ~25 min game bugged, no win recorded.
But I am sure the next game will be vs a stacked AT and THAT will certainly count

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Ive had 2 wins today that didnt count. Its happening more often.

I go to check opponents profile, the lose counts for them but the wins dont count for me.

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Another vs two AT teams in a row, both times automatic leavers on my team.

It’s already an uphill battle playing against an arranged team, why would I compound that by trying to control a 2nd base as well?

4v4 RT still a disaster.

Only good news is that the last couple of days the ‘win not count’ bug seems to have stopped, at least for now (or maybe I just have got lucky)

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Try some 3v3 RT que. Its not much better, but Ive noticed less trolls and ATs, also players seem to build unit compositions better. Less mass bats/ chimes kinda thing.

It still happens but Im enjoying 3v3 RT more than 4v4 RT atm. You get more 1v1s / 2v2s in 3v3 RT.

4v4 is an absolute $%&^ show, I que 4v4 to try out strange strats / tavern hero combinations.

Ive seen 800 MMR players in 4v4…. theres to many trolls for it to be fun most of the time. The MMR spread in blizzard match making is terrible all around… but its the WORST in 4v4 RT.

How does WC3 Champions do it so much better than Blizzard? Even Legion TD has a better ELO system. Thats kinda pathetic on Blizzards part.

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Objectively speaking… you’re already getting matched around 800mmr, so what more are you expecting? If your accounts are also low mmr, that probably means there are some issues with how you play too. In fact, there are plenty of clowns even at 4k mmr, and no matter how high your mmr is, you’ll still run into teammates at 4k or 3k. So expecting to completely avoid clown teammates is simply impossible.

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My lowest RT MMR is 3400, my hightest is 4200. Highest 1v1 is 4400. I think Im pretty average MMR being able to win slightly more of my 1v1s holding a positive win rate. RT starting to fall below 50% win rate with all the trolls and wide MMR spread / Smurfing AT premades. 800 MMR queing into 2800 - 4500 k is wild.

It feels like blizzard punishes you for trying to win. I get thats how ELO works, trying to keep you at a 50% win rate but having to suffer with so much intentional trolling just to keep you at around 50% just sucks the fun out of the game.

WC3 needs better league / rating system maybe, that way the trolls can play with each other. People with less mechanical micro can move up the leagues to climb out of the troll hole.

They were able to figure it out with SC2 leagues…. bronze, sliver, gold , platinum, diamond, master , grand master and the ranking in each league, why cant they port that system over too Wc3. Once you reach plat/ diamond / master, there is zero Trolls… there are less trolls in SC2 in general. A bronze player is never qued into a master player ever… even in SC2 version of 3v3 / 4v4 RT.

You can only play so many games where your controlling the leavers or having to baby sit, before you get burnt out from the trolls. Thats when you stop RT and que 1v1 for a bit, at least in 1v1 when you win / lose you know its all you. The next day you que RT and remember why you qued 1v1 the day before….

Its one thing to deal with 20%-30% win rate players that are a little mechanically slow or not being able to pay attention, WC3 is a harder game than we give it credit for…. As long as people are at least trying their best, Its not so bad, even if their best is not so great, but to be paired with intentional trolls so often is why I que less and less 4v4 RT.

Match making and MMR should take into account win rates more too, maybe that would help.

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Unfortunately, BNet just doesn’t have that many normal RT players left. There are also tons of low-game, suspiciously high-winrate accounts that are complete disasters. Every time I see a 4000 MMR player with a 0/0 record or a 4500 MMR player who’s 3/0 on my team, I already know I am doomed — their real skill level is probably around 2000.

For example, two days ago I had a game where my team had a 5300 MMR Night Elf who was 5/0, a 4k player named albwarrior, and another Orc around 4k–5k. Meanwhile the opponents were Andross (currently the #1 Orc MMR, since I barely played Orc this season lol), Sonkie (the #2 Human MMR, only behind me), plus two pretty average Undead players going fiend Frost Wyrms draft.

On paper, you’d think teammates in a lobby like that should at least be competent, right? Unfortunately not. Five minutes into the game, the 5300 Night Elf’s Keeper of the Grove got killed by creeps. Then 30 seconds later, the 4k–5k Orc’s BM also died to creeps…

The Night Elf said he was just too bad at the game. The Orc said… his mentality got disturbed.

At that point I just typed “go next” in all chat and mentally checked out. So yeah, even high-MMR games are full of clowns — let alone low MMR.

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My tin foil hat brain suspects that blizzard has put in Bot players to inflate the player base and artificially decrease que times. The que times are very fast, and with a lack of punishment system and no “ time in que “ like all other games have.

Bot AI behavior replicating chaotic human behavior is easier than ever now, they could do it 10 years ago with limited success but now.. its very viable and cheap.

Ive also noticed, for the 1st time since they allowed AT vs RT, I’ve actually qued into “ normal “ AT pub teams a few times now, not 63 - 5 AT premades. Just average 50% or less win rate AT pubs. In those cases its actually winable , even with RT players lacking pre ordained coordination.

This is a big one that people dont mention when comparing AT vs RT -TRUST- you would have with some one you know… that when you push heavily into an opponent on your side that an ally will cover your base from counter attacks and not just go creeping while you invested heavily into a early push.

Thats kinda the format / appeal of 4v4 RT though isnt it, People that play only RT wanting to make massed “ ultimate armies “ with a solo hero to get the lvl 6 skill ASAP, thats kinda the appeal of what RT was, you can make “ for fun “ units and not have the responsibility of a standard 1v1 match with proper scouting, unit countering, timings and 1 base vs expo impetus. Everyone wants to get mass frost with DL lvl 6 or Tinker lvl 6 and run around the map… or PotM lvl 6 with mass chims.

Many new players are coming back with Grubbys tournaments recently, players from MOBAs/ other RTs games like AoE, Herra is having his own AoE tournament so we have popular SC2 streamers playing Wc3 / AoE atm, like Uthermal playing on WC3 champions, they are bringin in new players.

Dendi / SingSIng brought in DotA 2 players. Tyler1 / yamatocannon / dante are brining in Leage of legends players into Wc3. Sodapoppin / Ahmpy with WoW. Dota 2 / WoW players that never played original Dota in wc3 customs get to see the origins of their game, and the heros are similar to the DotA 2 heros, so its easy for them to understand / cross over. Like wise, WoW players that never played WC3 get to experience the origins of WoW.

WC3 champions might be a better place for you to play 1v1s. You would face off vs more high lvl players, semi pro / pro players in the 2000- 3000 MMR bracket, I think Happy is middle to high 3k , grubby is around 2200- 2700 I think. They start you off at 1500 and most of us average players lose their 1st 10 - 20 games before they find their MMR. They do that to intentionally stop Smurfing.

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Good for you, I don’t. different people may have different experiences. And the only ways to positively identify groups are if they all have the same MMR or if they all have no MMR displayed, but the latter really isn’t definitive.

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This thread isn’t about 1v1s, which aren’t even a problem on battle.net at all. it’s about 4v4, and as usual people are using hyperbole in an attempt to grab Blizzard’s attention, as it really isn’t as bad as they’re making it out to be. And, as I’ve explained above and as most people have continued to ignore, there’s a really simple fix for this.

And I cannot advocate playing on W3C unless you’re a very skilled player because the general standard of skill there is much higher and an average joe is not going to have a good experience there.

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I think we should keep the discussion focused on War3 matchmaking itself.

The core issue many players are talking about is 4v4 RT vs AT. From experience, RT games often collapse early due to leavers when matched against full AT teams, which already decides the outcome in practice.

There was also an expectation that MMR adjustments would address this imbalance, but many players feel it still hasn’t been fully solved. Because of that, some players believe the current AT vs RT system should be reconsidered or adjusted further.