Hi, I am low MMR zerg player and I can’t seem to find a way to deal with terran mech, once they attack I trade my hole army for 1/4 of their. I mostly try to outmine them and then trade army for part of their army until they can no longer create more units, but if they attack sooner their army destroys everything I have. I also try to harass with bane/muta to deny expansions. Beforo I also tryid going lurker viper but tanks just murdered my lurkers so I could just abduct 4-6tanks. I will drop a replay and if anyone has some tips, please reply. https://drop.sc/replay/13853028
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make 8 vipers and have a consistent blinding cloud (an ability that makes terran units blind) on their mech army (slow moving that can’t escape the cloud)
I’ll look at the replay too to make fun of your build and macro and scouting.
Okay I looked at the replay:
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in your opening build instead of rallying a emerging drone in to the gas geysir you pull a worker off of minerals instead to make the extractor. That’s at least 2 trips of minerals you lost right there.
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in your opener you pull workers off of minerals to saturate gas instead of rallying them in as they pop. Again, later minerals.
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your first overlord scouts nothing but good that you saw pro games and know about the pillar of pervertion.
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you keep mining gas after 100 for speed. If you don’t get overlord speed I’ll be upset.
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you KEEP MINING GAS WITH NO WAY TO USE IT CAN YOU NOT DO THAT?
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Let’s take a moment to appreciate that you got overlord speed (this is good) but you didn’t actually scout at all when it finished (this is bad)
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you fail to spread a second tumor as soon as your queen has 25 more energy.
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when you see the hellions move out you build a spinecrawler. You build just build it somewhere. You could have blocked the ramp with it.
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The hellions distracted you so much that all your hatcheries are idle instead of building MORE QUEENS 5 is not enough.
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You keep building roaches instead of drones. I really hope you’re going to attack with them… Oh wait. No lair or roach speed.
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Once again at 6:15sec we’ve seen NO SCOUTING from the overlords you specifically made unstoppable.
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None of these overlords are dropping creep on enemy expansion locations.
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Why even get OL speed?
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You built evo chambers just like the pros! (this is good) You don’t use them even with all that extra gas you mined
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you keep having 10+ larva just sitting there. Not being made in to units. Larva is a resource. You’re absolutely failing to utilize them. BUILD THINGS. BUILD DRONES!!!
. You sacrificed a roach 75 minerals 25 gas to scout. WHEN YOU HAVE SPEEDLORDS AND THE ABILITY TO MAKE OVERSEERS OR CHANGELINGS. It’s good that you scout. -
You have 50 drones at the 7 minute mark and you haven’t been pressured at all. You should be sitting on 80 drones with a hive coming up.
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You used select all army to deal with a hellbat drop. What if your opponent wasn’t just as bad as you and 8 hellions were rolling in to your 3rd base at the same time? Hotkey your units.
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You are floating 400 gas. You’ve NOT STARTED a tech building of any kind. Just roach. You could have vipers right now. And a nydus worm. AND MORE DRONES.
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I’m now at the 8 minute mark. You haven’t used those speedlords for literally anything all game. Stop getting OL speed if you’re not gonna use it.
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when you finally make a tech building it’s spire. Don’t do that. Mutas will die horribly to mech. What if you got an infestation pit instead and made swarmhosts? Or infestors with neural parasite?
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Let’s take a moment to appreciate that you don’t know at 8:40 if your enemy has a 3rd base or a 4th base or a 5th base. That OL speed is really working out great.
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Also you keep making roaches and not drones. And those roaches are just sitting in your base. Doing nothing. Could those roaches have been drones?
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You actually have to remove the select all army hotkey. Stop using it right now and never use it again.
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Your 2-2 is later than a slowpoke. With all the aggression of 1 hellbat drop the upgrades have just been forgotten.
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at 9:45 you’re floating almost 2000 minerals without expanding anywhere. You could make so many hatches. Also you’ve still not even started your infestation pit and you’re still not scouting at all.
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You’ve succesfully defeated the first push the terran made. Good job. When you remaxed however you made two critical mistakes: You made zerglings and mutas. You saw thors and were like: Yup mutas will do the trick. NO!
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Lmao you knew he had tanks and went in. Don’t do that. I’m at 11:15 no. If you only had tech buildings you couldremax on pure broodlord right and it would be fine.
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btw you haven’t taken your 5th 6th and 7th or 8th hatch on schedule. Did you forget or is this somekind of 4base NA allin i don’t know about?
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here at the 12 minute mark I’d like to point out that overlord speed hasn’t seen any use. Your overseers have created 0 changelings. Was OL speed really worth it?
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Stop microing mutas. No really don’t even make a spire. (The best part here is that you saw his army unsieged at all times F2’ing after those mutas but you didn’t go: Oh my roaches could win me the game right now!
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After your hive finishes you don’t get greater spire for a year. Stop doing that.
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stop sitting in your base when you hit 200/200 supply. You’re zerg. Go and fight and remax and remax and remax (this will be easier if you actually build more drones FASTER)
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Jesus christ… I’ve just watched you suicide an army in to tanks. They were ravagers. You biled 4 times. You had like 90 ravagers. ?
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You’ve lost in a basetrady manner. All of these problems could’ve been solved by: spreading creep. (alternatively actually the overlord speed you paid 100-100 for) ACTUALLY TECHING UP. Expanding more than you did. Having hive tech. (honestly just get hive) You had like 10k 5k in bank when the game ended. What can you deduce from this? All those gathered resources could’ve been units. Said units could beat the terran army 90 times over.
I hope this helps. If you’re salty post here and I’ll give you one of my replays so you can make fun of me.
EDIT2: in less words but with more emphasis: LEARN TO MACRO!
4 Likes
Thanks that you took time and wrote down all that, I will try my best.
2 Likes
Keep posting replays. I was thoroughly entertained. Feel free to add me as well. I’m more than happy to “coach” you by screaming at you. For free!
My battletag is floating everywhere on the forums so I can finally play a BO7 vs rotti. but here it is again: IMAQT#21234
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drop .sc/replay/ 13883245
I knew from the start that I wanted lurkers at the end, cuz it seems to work really well vs thors.
u got two options to get good
make and spend a hell of a lot of money
micro correctly
now ur master 3 and u gotta do the other one
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Go for 16 hatch and get 1 creep tumor up in your natural asap when the queen pops (defend it vs. the reaper at all costs!)
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work on your early creep spread, injects and gas timing / upgrades.
You have no hotkey for your lings and you’re not scouting with them.
Terran has 4 (!!!) marines and no bunker while you have 8 speedlings.
Go kills his natural base while you build drones, inject and spread creep. -
You have 560 minerals and 282 gas sitting around at 4:41… why?!
Where is your overlord speed? Your lair? Why are you not building queens?
And WHY do you have a 2nd gas before 2 base saturation?!
You could have seen that he has a 3rd CC on the way and is building a factory when most terrans already have 8 hellions out.
Can you see what 20 lings would have done? (and then roach/ravager/queen with a nydus from 3 base saturation?
Or swarm hosts from 3 base saturation or whatever. -
If you really want to get good, talk to people about the matchup(s) and how you can macro better so you learn what “upkeep” is and that you have to spend any larvae asap because you have a big goal but also smaller goals & timings.
–> Ling/Bane/Hydra maxout with 20 hydras and rest lings (1/3 of the lings as banes) with 2/2 on the lings, ling speed, bane speed, hydra range & speed) 200 supply by 10:30 or earlier for example.
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hey ;__; i just learned that 12 pool 3 rav opener tho
that’s viable in zvt though you just need a good cheese
i didnt watch their replay im just saying i just personally found out the value of early 2nd gas
if ur not a cheese player just play standard and follow Shuuragksh’s tips
they are generally gonna state the facts on the correct macro play and they can teach you how to defensively macro safely in p much every matchup
That’s a valid point - you could open up with 3 ravagers and then go out of gas to saturate 2-3 mineral lines (one more than terran) and get like 7 queens and after the mineral saturation, you get saturate 3 gases and either go roach/ravager or roach/hydra into vipers into lurkers with upgrades (vipers & lurkers only hive tech usually) or ling/bane/hydra into corruptor/broodlord and then lurkers.
Cheese into macro is pretty good to learn how to re-gain your momentum or play with relative timings instead of standard timings.
(like you don’t need baneling speed at minute x but you need baneling speed when terran is going to push with mass marines at minute x. And you should always try to be ahead on upgrades vs. bio but vs. mech it’s more about tech options like corruptors vs. BCs or roaches against hellions or early muta switch or ravagers or brood lords or infestors with neural parasite or …)
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is skipping pneumatized cheese atm?
bc ive lost games to missing the switch to stim, but id most likely be able to do overseer, just no speed preferably
0.902 / 2.63 overlord
2.62 / 4.72 overseer
essentially its only good to skip pneumatized if you use 1-2 overseers
by the 3rd scouting overseer you shouldve gotten it right?
math: 100/100 overlords vs 2 overseers for 100/100
conclusion: only worth if you play like ragnarok or goblin etc
i like that a lot tbh, helps with the issue i was having vs bio
also concludes the bread for the OP
op if ur still here, you beat mech with using tech tree counters, now ur army wont disappear when you walk across bc its very strong in that sense as well
The most important factor is time here.
You can always get gas earlier to compensate a potentially late baneling speed or infestors or gas for roaches or whatever.
I would say that overlord speed is essential if you don’t play like 10-20 games or more every day because it gives you a ton of information and more time to react because vs. mass hellions or hellion/cyclone, you’ll want roaches and if it’s double BC, the roaches won’t help much and would’ve better been spores.
About the tech tree:
The infestor is a very good stepping stone towards t3 - I guess swarm host has a similar role but I don’t play it that often. Also don’t forget nydus when you have t2/t3 as it helps with attacking and defending.
Stepping stone: Infestor
–> Complementing…
*** hydras (vs. anything terran can throw at you; worst case would be tanks - you can neural them if your positioning is way better but vipers would be better here and fungal can only delay the push. Ling/Bane/Hydra/Infestor can do surrounds but also trade extremely cost efficiently with fungal if terran tries to stim 500 marines into your army i.e. after you got map control with mass mutas)
*** mutas or corruptors (neural Thors that tried to counter the flying units that were either build vs. mass drops or BCs)
But atm I think that vs. tank/thor you can only base trade.
Every other combination is kinda fine if you can micro with infestors and get lurkers in time and corruptors and upgrades.
So once you see mass thors, get your nydus ready and the moment they move out, you destroy their production and outer bases with lurkers.
Maybe swarm host / infestor can do something like neural thors and once they try to attack you, you launch the swarm hosts.
Also maybe roach/hydra/viper because you can max out faster and they don’t have enough army value then.
Maybe ling/ultra/viper or ling/bane/ultra/viper (blinding clouds).
my unwillingness to go sh/inf/viper rn is the main thing holding me back
i just need to be more inclusive with them in my builds
they are friends
I would love to see a replay of this, destroying the outer bases with lurkers. Not because I don’t believe it, but because I would love to see someone who is much better than me ripping apart a terran with maru lurker control.
Lurkers have 3 more range than a planetary. You can put a blinding cloud on top of the PF and it only takes a moment to kill the PF. And even if the lurkers are in range, it’s not a big deal.
The main thing is that tanks, liberators and ghosts shouldn’t be on the field or at least not near that position and you should take out turrets first.
here you go:
_https://drop.sc/replay/14048327
Though I think that destroying the army is kinda easier / more important (mostly because I need to learn how to micro and need my full army every time).
Maybe 1-2 lurkers outside of the pf range like behind the mineral line to be annoying.
Edit: next one:
_https://drop.sc/replay/14048929
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Two times I’ve heard how good infestors are.
but what I find annoying about infestor is the fact that you need at least two upgrades.
- Pathogen Glands -> otherwise you build 3 infestor and then have to wait again to use 1 fungal.
- Neural Parasite -> that you have a second ability.
- Burrow, if you want to be sneaky.
for viper you don’t need an upgrade, but you do need a hive.
-> 2 good abilities
-> 1 ability where you can recharge your energy right away.
i don’t know what better way to protect infesor on ground by other units or vip erdie air advantage.
but I agree to caster help zerg im late very much if you can play it right.
Go baneling ravager sh vs mech no bc
Go baneling ravager corruptor vs mech with bc
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