It’s mostly for psychology: being nerved to a balanced state sure doesn’t feel right as compared to being buffed to a balanced state. All races probably need some minor buffs right from the final patch.
1 Like
All except toss. toss needs some nerfs. They have never been more broken than this current state. PvT is broken. almost unplayable PvZ is a crap fest. Turtle to sky toss every time and A move accross the map. The game should not be in crap fest state
Blizzard clean up your trash and fix your game
3 Likes
Which can also be achieved by buffing all 3 races, just different degrees.
I roasted you or one of the other regular whiners into the ground about this already. How does the game break over a voidray/tempest buff? The shield battery most recent buff is annoying, sure, but aside from that, what broke the game? What makes them broken now more than ever? This is literally just brainless whining. Protoss has been getting nerfed across the board over the course of 2 years.
3 Likes
Zerg late game was became weak when ITs were removed but Protoss players didn’t realize it until the void ray patch. They started opening voids into skytoss and realized Zerg’s answer to that is complete garbage and now you see it almost every pro game.
Protoss hasn’t been nerfed anywhere near the amount Zerg has. And again, most of Protoss’ nerfs were because 4.0 was such a huge buff.
1 Like
The one thing that Zerg could use a buff is microbial shroud. Right now its still pretty weak and underpowered. But it has massive potential for use against lategame Protoss.
Buff that thing to reduce air attacks by 75% and its duration and affect aoe spells by reducing damage by 25%. Then lock it behind a 75/75 upgrade unlocked on Hive tech cos this version of microbial shroud is much more similar to dark swarm level potency in BW and not locking it behind an upgrade seems unreasonable. But this spell will be very useful vs skytoss from the Zergs perspective and allows for a back and forth engagement where P needs to use disruptors rather than Carrier storm.
A straight nerf to skytoss is the wrong thing to do. Especially when skytoss is nowhere near as potent towards Terran as it is to Zerg. And nerfing it removes lategame P vs T. But if there is 1 change Zerg needs its a buff to microbial shroud seriously. I can see PvZ being much more dynamic to watch and play.
The void acceleration nerf though, I am pretty sure it will only affect their interaction with bile, and nothing else. I thought that’d make the interaction unique and interesting though.
Microbial shroud is actually pretty strong as many in this forum have mentioned:
75% reduce means no unit underneath would be damaged. Players just haven’t tried it out enough. Other than the void nerf or shroud buff, to be honest, just slightly buff ultralisk/brood so their can effectively take out HT probably would just do with the current shroud.
1 Like
Honestly MS is already pretty damn strong and does whats it’s intended to do, which is turning the tide in pure hydra/queen vs pure carrier/bc. The problem though is protoss ground aoe, not only storm and collosi but more recently we’ve seen Trap dismantling Dark’s lategame ground army with disruptors. What is zerg answer to disruptor? Ling, muta, bl, or viper. Lings can’t be used because archons exist in skytoss comp, muta same reason. Bl beat all toss ground but lose to tempest and vr, and considering nearly every skytoss opening goes 5+ vr it is not an appealing option. That leaves viper, and viper is outranged by ht which puts it again in toss’ favour.
So I think we either need a disruptor nerf, which will also help out TvP, or a nerf to VR opening like reverting build time buff.
2 Likes
Microbial Shroud is not underpowered at all.
Microbial Shroud’s damage reduction applies before armor, so it effectively doubles the effect of armor against air attacks as it reduces their damage. In practice Microbial Shroud already provides up to an 80% damage reduction against Carriers, up to a 75% damage reduction against Banshees, up to a 68.75% damage reduction against Battlecruisers, up to a 60% or higher damage reduction against charged Void Rays, and so on.
If it is just a case of fighting air units with Hydralisks or Queens, Microbial Shroud will consistently increase Zerg’s army strength by a factor of 2-5.
The main reasons why Microbial Shroud remains rarely used are as follows:
- Zerg normally fights skytoss with Corruptors, Vipers, and Spore Crawlers when they can. Microbial Shroud doesn’t help and isn’t needed in that case; and it would be outright overpowered if it did.
- Zerg players still have to play around HT, Archons, Disruptors, or other sources of splash when they use Hydralisks. Microbial Shroud is still very useful in those cases because it reduces the damage from air units by so much; but it is not intuitive for most players to use an anti-air spell to protect their ground units (Lurkers, Ultralisks, etc) as they fight other ground units before the Hydralisks actually push forward. Zerg players are more likely to think they should just mass the Hydralisks with Microbial Shroud and then complain that Microbial Shroud is “worthless” when the Hydralisks still die to splash units that they didn’t bother to counter or zone. This is not a knock on Zerg players at all, Microbial Shroud’s best use cases just don’t follow the patterns that players would normally expect.
2 Likes
Clown logic. You’re never going to use infested terrans to fight voidrays because the voidrays won’t fight it (unless you are in their base). What you are going to use is fungal (which hasn’t been touched) or microbial shroud (new spell with an actual use). On the other hand, you can make vipers and throw a parasitic bomb.
This is such an insane lie I can’t be bothered to talk with you anymore
People just don’t realize this. I had a maxed out skytoss army and it was almost trading evenly against Zerg’s hydra infestor (I didn’t have high templar). This was in 2v2, but I was basically facing this one Zerg one on one.
2 Likes
THe problem of shroud as it has been said by pros and casters over and over again, is that the main threat to Zerg ground units are not air units in Late game ZvP, but rather AOE ground units such as Disruptors and Templars. With shroud you have to keep your units under it to fight air units which makes them prime targets for AOE spells.
On its own sure its strong but unfortunately it is useless in realistic scenarios. If Shroud brought some mitigation against AOE spells then it might be useful.
Edit: Just be clear I do not think MS should mitigate AOE that would be decidedly broken for many other compositions as well. I am just saying that this would be the only scenario i see where it would help against Skytoss.
Correct.
BS. Even now they most of the time fail to land the double-shot to Ferrari-Lurkers. This whiner and troll is asking to make Disruptor 3-shot Lurker/Queens (like with Thors) just because is too lazy to use their weapons.
Your friend BatZ is squealing day and night that your race and player-base has stellar APM compared with the noob-a-click-Protoss.
Use it and shut up.
1 Like
LOL, NO, what you are asking is universal invulnerability to everything and every composition. It’s by definition the most stupid and broken dynamics that could be imagined.
Every spell has pros and cons.
1 Like
Not saying it should be done. Just saying that is the only way I envision the spell being useful. I think late game ZvP is easily fixable by reverting the FB range buff.
1 Like
No again. If FB range buff is reverted the FB would also revert the damage. In that case the full-power IT can return.
You have to understand that IT removal was direct consequence of FB mega-nerff.
Moronetam did that unasked change without pondering the consequences that are lingering still now.
Protoss losing to IT prior to FB nerff were at fault for not using proper compositions and proper tactics.
1 Like
I don’t understand what IT has to do with any of this I am okay with them being gone and don’t see why they would have to come back. the FB damage was nerfed years ago unless I missed something. I am talking about the range buff in 2020 which made them outrange vipers by 1. If feedback went back to the same range as Abduct, especially given how much better a transition protoss have to the late game since the void buff. and bane nerf. It would allow the zerg to take more risks and not have to stand over a spore forest.
I guess the misunderstanding is that you think I am talking about buffing FB, I am saying they should be nerfed back to how they were early last year
FB does not do anything about IT but it did against their carriers (Infestors). It was able to keep both Infestors and Vipers in check.
After the IT were hatched only the Disuptor fire was able to deal with them.
Zergs were release from the threat of losing Infestors began to mass them with impunity.
Use Microbial Shroud to protect Lurkers at the front of your army; or to protect other ground units as they attempt to push and kill the opponent’s ground support.
The Hydralisks should be safe to move in after this; although with Lurkers you could probably keep them just behind the Lurkers to kill Interceptors or Abducted units.
1 Like
Yeah that is definitely a use for them, but as was seen in Trap vs Dark. Trap simply disrupted them away, it was not carriers what threatened the lurkers but the disruptors. MS does help so that Toss cant yolo and must chip away, but I honestly think that is the height of its potential.
1 Like
I do not understand what your objection is. Is it that you think that vipers would be too strong if that is the case? Because IT are irrelevant for this discussion as they are not in the game anymore.
1 Like