The funny thing is I am a zerg main. w/my icon I obviously had at least 1k wins w/all races including random. But the majority of my games (as in more than 50%) are w/zerg. I was a zerg main even going back to starcraft 1 in 1998. I remember meeting a kid in high school who played starcraft and I asked him what race he played as we were rushing to get to our next class and I couldnt hear him reply and yelled “what?” and my high school gym teacher was passing us by and called out “HE SAID ZERG!” lol.
Zerg IS my race, I’m not very good w/the other two. But I have played very few games of zerg outside of random in LOTV because I’m disgusted by what they’ve done w/the race and how broken it’s been. The only reason it hasn’t been consistently OP throughout LOTV is due to the strength of individual combat units. Zerg is fundamentally OP right now and when they adjusted other units holding zerg back – like lots of protoss nerfs-- they broke this game.
I fail at basic math? According to what metric? What has transpired that could possibly make you think that - perhaps your inability to understand simple opening build orders? 12 worker start was VERY bad for zerg. Same for the inject change. Yet you say they were buffs to zerg, and yet I am supposedly the one bad at basic math? You live in la-la land.
12 worker start removed 7-10 pools. They used to be the most common openers in both ZvT and ZvP. Inject change was a direct nerf to zergs ability to bank production, which is zergs primary form of production, and that was a direct nerf to how many units zerg can make and that’s a direct nerf to all of zerg. If you can’t see this, it is YOU who doesn’t understand basic math. 10 comes before 12. Hard? Nope!
[quote=“tEhbAtZ-1845, post:62, topic:3976”]
12 worker start removed 7-10 pools. They used to be the most common openers in both ZvT and ZvP.
[/quote]Yes now zerg can 12 pool with almost no drawback. Doesn’t ruin their economy or even put them behind if they don’t get damage done. Funny huh?
You forgot to mention larva production rate was increased to compensate. Like most zerg “nerfs” there was a buff put in place to compensate.
Starting hatchery also produces larva faster too.
Yeah, zerg’s production has only increased relative to the other races in LOTV. Try again.
It means 50% fewer queens. Queens are zergs early and mid game defense. Zerg is the only race that loses at this stage already. You are suggesting a 50% reduction to zergs defense.
Proxy gate wasn’t a thing. Jaedong beat it while going 3 hatch before pool. The 12 worker start hurt zerg far more than any other race from the removal of 10p alone.
First of all look at winrates for PvZ games which last less than 5 minutes. The winrate is ridiculous for Zergs (haven’t checked in a while but its something like >75% for sure - its not surprising considering Zerg has much more aggressive options than Toss in the early game ) so your claim about Zergs being the only ones who lose in the early game is just flat out wrong.
Second of all I have not suggested a “50% reduction to Zerg defense”, far from it. I only suggested to increase the supply of a tier 0 unit whose original intended primary purpose is Macro+Creep and which doesn’t even require Larva to build. Why should Zerg be able to defend without building an army? That’s a very stupid way to balance a strategy game. If someone builds units and attacks you, you should build units to defend. At least that’s how I thought RTS games should work up until now.
Proxy gate still exists. If I don’t feel like doing PvZ I’ll drop 4 gateways near the zerg 3rd asap and chrono out constant zealots while grabbing gas, full walling at home and adding in Stalkers or Adepts.
It’s not a good build but it wins because it’s so bad that it’s good. If that makes any sense.
You’re telling me. 80% of my ZvPs end at around 2 minutes. The ones who stay get treated to a 8-12 minute game until they realize that the zerg now has 6+ bases to their 2, maybe 3, has more workers and is up in tech. Then they allin and quit when the allin fails.
It used to be if zerg makes a small mistake (a few too many drones, just a FEW) they could be punished severely by protoss (remember- pylon would allow you to warp in 4 sec anywhere). Now that’s absolutely not the case in any way. But you just slightly miss blocking your wall w/a zealot? and the zerg can end you. Million other ways.
these “nerf zerg” threads becoming sillier and sillier…
and thats not the case for terran and zerg? leting the depots down, as a runby happens - rip workers and infrastructure.
6 hellions slipped into your mineralline? rip atleast 6-10 workers.
EVERY race will be dead, if you make mistakes, thats the game. and missblocking your wall as a protoss is a HUGE mistake, not a small one. like… thats the one thing, you learn, once you reach diamond league… ALWAYS have a unit in your wallin. if you lose to runbys as toss… its most likely because youre f2ing too much
Even if you wall perfectly, if the zerg has a brain they’ll focus your exposed gateway or cyber core and can kill it before your Stalker or Adept finish, forcing you to respond. Either with a probe pull or by moving your Zealot which results in it dying and potentially letting lings in.
didnt follow the thread - are you talking about early pool aggression? i guess so, since otherwise, you dont have lings out, before the adept/stalker finishes.
if the zerg goes early pool, he sacrifices economy, aka workers. so with that in mind AND with chronoboost in mind, its absolutely fine to loose some workers against an early pool. especially because the zerg needs atleast 2 bases to be en par productionwise with toss/terran on one base. if you manage to get your wallin rdy, before the lings are there (which should nearly ALWAYS be the case, cuz of probe scout), the zerg cant do any dmg in most cases.
f.e. not scouting an dt shrine and losing the 3rd base to it. once you lost your 3rd against a toss, its almost impossible to ever coming back into the game again.
Here’s the problem with what you’re saying. A zergling runby used to be an investment. Now zerg is so ramped up they’ll always have speedlings and it’s just par for the course to try their run bys. Anytime you mess up you will just lose. Or how about a 3-4 ravager all in? or a roach rush? or a roach ravager? or roach ling? Miss exactly the right composition and you just lose. Nothing like that exists on the protoss end. If my opponent misses cannons behind his natural? rush? He has so many ways to respond and not die. If I proxy, he laughs and puts up a few spines, makes more queens and some lings or roaches or both. Adepts? Lol just queens and a few lings. Zealots are invalid until immortals come out with speed legs. Queens can handle htem altogether. Zerg’s immense productoin makes blink stalkers worthless. So what’s left?
This is NOT an early mistake they can make. This comes much later. DT are a t3 unit. By the time DTs come out you can lose to an immortal timing attack. Or a hydra timing attack in the zerg’s case. This is not an early loss. And even then with fast spores and instant overseer DT rush almost NEVER kills zerg.
This is like the guy saying proxy tempest is a way P can kill you early… lol.