In my opinion, even though Zerg can generate larvae quickly due latest patch (that I also hope they revert) - its economy is not as strong as the other races over the course of a game, and its late-game AA options are too weak.
I think Zerg would benefit from a powerful dedicated anti-air unit, similar to the Devourer from StarCraft: Brood War.
Alternatively - and I don’t want to restart the same debate again - bringing back the Scourge in some form could help. For example, they could be produced from a Scourge Nest as a specialized defensive option against late-game air armies.
So no I do not want to use Scourge offensively but, we need them in defense.
Spores are effective early on, but in the late game a small group of Tempests or Battlecruisers can often destroy entire lines of Spore with little difficulty. I believe Zerg needs an additional late-game tool to counter AA, in defensive mode.
Corruptors are one of the strongest AA units in the game, and Parasitic Bomb is inarguably the strongest anti-air ability.
So no, I don’t agree that Zerg’s “AA” options are too weak. The biggest problems that Zerg has are unit control and creating the right number of Corruptors to deal with enemy air, without producing too many and opening themselves to a ground switch.
Corruptors already fill this role. In practice they can beat almost anything in the air.
There is no need to bring back Devourers, which are weaker and completely redundant.
This is another thing that Zerg does not need. The only reason why you seem to be suggesting these units is nostalgia.
Is not just nostalgia.
Corruptors and Mutalisks combined and (upgraded to 3/3) die like flies even to few vikings combined with liberators. Not to mention thors, and widow mines.
Or if enemy teleport mass BC to my zerg base, the forest of 20+ spores just die instant than my 2x spire gone and is game over.
I am talking about 4v4, I know things are balanced to 1v1, but this is what we play and Zerg just could not stand a chance - in late game.
Plus the opposite also true since last patch – in early game Zerg has the edge (due larva spawn rate).
So if I do not win in the first 10 min vs Terran s + Protoss than the game is lost.
What Zerg actually need is to revert back the last patch, then add just some AA defense.
It can be a Scourge nest, similar to Bile Launcher that fires scourges into the close proximity - Air. Just for defense power.
Or instead of Corruptor I would prefer also “flying infestor”. But we had this conversation already.
(So not necessary Devourer or Scourge like in SC1 - those were just some trial ideas to fix things).
Parasitic Bomb counters flocks of air and Abduct lets you get auto target-fires and cost-effective favourable fights, and the Viper’s Consume has excellent targets in extra Hatcheries and Evolution Chambers which are mineral only, something a late game scenario you tend to have excess of.
(a) No, they really don’t.
(b) Assuming they do, so would Devourers unless you significantly changed the unit, because the most logical interpretation is the Corruptor’s statline. At which point, don’t call it a Devourer.
Two units should not have the same spells available to them, so this unit would need its own kit of spells to use, at which point it’s not an infestor anymore?
Like, the Viper is a flying spellcaster with appropriately battlefield warping abilities the same as the Infestor is.
Zerg has Infestors which Terran has no counter to unless you think paper mache Ghosts are a reliable counter when faced with massive swarms of lings/bane, Vipers which you can’t kill if the zerg is careful enough and that pretty much destroys Protoss and Terran air units with ease.
Also, terran at least has no real defense against zerg if they get enough economy because the zerg can keep sending waves upon waves of kamikaze banelings and zerglings and the only reliable counter to this cheese is to have three or more planetary fortresses per expansion. Banelings should cost more than they currently do considering how skewed the economy is in this patch. Banelings require zero skill to use and are infinitely hard to counter and you pretty much lose the game if you lose your third because your gas in your main and natural is mostly mined out by then. All a zerg has to do is mass expand with extractors all over the map and outgas you as a terran and there is not much you can do about it other than investing huge sums of money into base defense. Banelings should do a lot less damage to buildings because the way they are used in this awful patch is like the original reapers with their uber base destroying grenades that were pretty much impossible to stop from destroying your expansions unless you invested huge sums of money into base defense.
Corruptors only counter tanky air units, not a group of light air units
No, parasitic bomb does not counter this either, as 90% of the time, if your enemy knows what they are doing, they just split the infected unit so it only hits 1 enemy
Infestors don’t destroy air either. They did before, and it was the proper zerg anti air, but it got nerfed because one single pro player who had God tier skills managed to take full advantage of them
Corruptors versus Vikings is a close fight. Adding Liberators (and assuming the same supply) actually reduces the chances for Terran.
Mutalisks are explicitly balanced for harassment, not combat. They produce quickly, they move quickly, and they heal quickly. They use these traits to run in, pick off units, and pull out before the enemy can respond.
Corruptors are not meant to fight ground units, and neither Devourers nor Scourge would be any help against those.
So, you got caught off guard and didn’t react fast enough. That is not a balance problem, nor would Devourers nor Scourge help with that.
The game is balanced for 1v1, but even so, none of your suggestions would be an improvement in either 1v1 or 4v4.
No, Zerg does not need this. Corruptors with Viper or Infestor support are sufficient.
Viper. Abduct valuable targets to pick them off 1 by 1, use Blinding Cloud to negate ground units, use Parasitic Bomb (arguably the most powerful AOE spell in the game) to help weaken enemy air.
Corruptors consistently out-trade Phoenixes, Liberators, and Mutalisks. Those are your “light air units”.
Corruptors can out-trade Vikings in very large numbers (when wasted shots start to work against the Vikings), but you can also just cast Parasitic Bomb to take advantage of its massive radius and the Viking’s slower speed.
Corruptors will beat Void Rays if they attack when Prismatic Alignment is down and run away when it is up.
And of course, Corruptors beat massive air consistently after a certain mass.
Parasitic Bomb has a radius of 3, the largest in the entire game.
It also deals 120 damage, which is the most of any AOE spell in the game.
Most air units need a significant amount of time to move out of Parasitic Bomb, meaning that they take a substantial amount of damage even with good micro.
Infected Terran was overpowered. Zerg players could just mass Infestors and spam Infested Terran to deal with almost any threat that the opponent could throw at them. The ability never should’ve existed.
Flaw parsitic bomb is that it only really works few air units
Voids, liberators, then rest can easily micro out of it or tank it. phenix can just run shield charge station since its speed, carriers doesnt even hurt its shields, vikings just need to land bc can telport. On top of this scvs single one can out heal it.
Vikings have the hardest time getting out of Parasitic Bomb normally of any air unit. This is one of the reasons why many players have stopped trying to use them against Brood Lords.
While you “can” theoretically land, this means giving up anti-air entirely for 7 seconds, which can be a problem when you actually need anti-air against Vipers or Brood Lords.
You suggested going Corruptors. Maybe a 1v1 against Vikings would work, but BCs destroy them.
We eliminated all three enemy players while the fourth went mass BCs. He teleported into our corner, and he won alone.
Our team just did not had a chance:
mass Hydras (Player 1),
mass Corruptors + half Mutalisks (Player 2 = me),
mass Stalkers (Player 3),
combined Terran army of tanks, thors few marines, widow mines (Player 4)
while stalkers were far away but came back to fight - the rest of the army encountered BC almost together.
Plus late game - everyone is out of gas. Even me with my 5 expos.
Sure you can argue we are noobs but in my experience and I did not told all zerg is weak , just : Zerg do not have good Late game Air support!
delete the 4th player’s base
you literally have more anti-building dps than the BCs do
yes the BCs can hit and run well, but if they jump to your side of the map that’s on cooldown so they can’t come back home to defend
if you have 200 supply of army (that’s 50 pop each player) against 20 BC/120 supply you are going to win very handily even with units that don’t actually hard-counter BCs
Day[9] said, forever ago, Just Go Kill Your Opponent. It applies here.
You said that you had a 4v4 and you eliminated three enemy players.
Simply build up to go kill the fourth one too. They physically cannot have enough units to be adequately defending at home and meaningfully attacking all of your bases. Even if their army is unbeatably strong (which it isn’t), you outnumber it!
Go kill the base. If they spend their tac-jump getting to your base, they can’t use it to come back and defend from an a-move; if they split their forces you severely outnumber it and therefore can beat it with raw numbers even if the units you have aren’t actually good against the enemy’s army.
ok I rewrote previous comment.
I told we tried , some base were hidden somewhere .
Finally mass BC won the game.
Coming back to the subject : Zerg AA for late game not so bright. You should all admit this. Protoss or Terran are far superior !
Again I am talking in Late Game and for AIR.
Only if you put them in one small ball and they die to mass AoE strike… If Terran put his vikings in a small ball he also losses all of them to single or two parasitic bombs.. Actually even too mutas as their attacks bounce…
HOWEVER I have seen many games where speedlings and mutas ALONE was countering… Marine,helbat,thors,vikings,raven,widow mines composition OF THE SAME SUPPLY VALUE…
Just spread your air a little or use the magic box. Thats pretty simple.
PS. You don’t need to thank me for help. I don’t care.
Man we had the same today.
One of 4 enemy massed BC, just 11 BC’s - I counted them.
Plus upgrades 2/2 (so not full 3/3) , I did not even see yamato upgrade.
He Tech Jumped in our corner (our 4 bases), and game over … 2 mates were out attacking me and another defending.
BC terran won alone!