Zerg and Toss OP

Blizzard should fix it by buffing / nerfing based on skill level. GM and Pro level terran have a slight advantage. At the levels below masters 2 , Zerg and Toss are OP

Literally F2 A move death ball to win. Race MMR are not equal between races. Terran MMR is the most valuable compared to other races before M2

If you play Toss or Zerg, your true MMR is -400 by default

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Terran has been the most OP and EZ race since the start of SC2.

It is why they were coined the "Spoon Fed Race’

Because you needed less actual smart and intelligent thinking to win with terran

They also have all the mechanics that MAKE UP FOR IN GAME MISTAKES MADE BY THE PLAYER.

  1. Terran does not drop mules on time… its OK because you will bank energy and drop later which results in NO LOSS of INCOME.
    But if you are zerg and you do not inject. You will never get that build time back you will never get that mining time back.
    This is one of 100’s of reasons why Terran is always the easier race.
  2. Did you get supply blocked? Well you can IMMEDIATELY DROP A SUPPLY DEPOT FOR FREE. But if you are Zerg or Protoss you will need to spend your SAVED RESOURCES on Overlords and Pylons and they are not immediate solutions to your problem you still have to wait for them to build. Only after they are done building can you start your units. For Zerg this hits hard because we lose larva often at critical times when they should be drones or military units. For protoss it hits hard because they can’t make any military units either.
  3. Do you need to know what your opponent is doing? Well how about a FREE SCAN!
    As a Terran your scouting is the best in the game it literally cannot be denied. When you use scan you see everything. Compare that to a Zerg overlord which is slow without upgrades and even with upgrades still not very fast. These are easily DENIED which prevents us from seeing things which means its hard for us to adapt to the other player. For protoss they still can use free hallucinated phoenix but they could make observers etc.
    But once again… Terran has it the EASIEST. its FREE AND IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DENY IT.



Compared this imbalance that was never fixed to some things they have changed for protoss and zerg.
For protoss they got their recalls… nerfed… in a way to make sure they cannot just recall FOR DAYS… compare that to Terrans scans… SCANS FOR DAYS… yet no cap to limit them to less scans… .so they cannot just do that. NOPE.
Why? Because terran is the SPOON FED EZ RACE THAT IS WHY.

Zerg… did you know they nerfed the queens larva production? That is HUGE and with zerg being horibly under powered you can imagine how stupid that change was looking back. But ya they nerfed zergs literaly larva resouce… you know the thing that is integral to EVERYTHING ZERG DOES their economy and their military…
Just really stupid and dumb decision.

But again they didn’t nerf scans now did they.
More on nerfs and things. Zerg is missing tons of units from Broodwar. Also spells and abilities from broodwar.
Did you know zerg actually had a spell just like the Oracle spell in brood war. It was called parasite. It was a permanent thing that would stay on enemy unit or even neutral units like those critters you see. It would give zerg vison. Thats all. just like the Oracles spell that gives them vision. So question is why did they not give this to zerg? Another off hand downgrade/nerf. Just like the fact we are missing other flying units that we had in BW like devoerers and guardians… but I guess you could say Broodlords are a replacement… but Broodlords suck to this day.

Scans are without a doubt absolutely stupid and broken.
They ruin the entire game for god sakes.

Burrow play by zerg would be so much more interesting without scans… or with less scans. Dark templars and mothership cloak… would also be so much more intereting without scans… banshees…


Other things that should be noted.

Over Powered Widow Mines vs Zerg. No skill to use… low cost DIRT CHEAP for 75/25. MASSIVE GAME ENDING DAMAGE IN 1 SHOT.
Absolutely no reason to not make these as a terran playing vs zerg.
These Widow Mines can in fact benefit from micro but you will notice pros do not even bother most of the time because… .well Terran is already EASY ENOUGH.

Battle Cruisers also Over Powered. The thing literally has a get out of jail free card on it called Warp. For zerg this is horrible because we only have 1 unit that is a good counter to BC and those are corruptors.
A terran basically attacks you getting free kills on your drone lines killing queens… killing what ever they want really and if you don’t have corruptors you are basically screwed and you lose. Because spores suck, queens suck, hydras suck, the BC will easily destroy all these AA options zerg has so only corruptors will work.
Here is the thing BC are not bad vs corruptors. Keep up with your upgrades and use your yamato and you can probably win most corruptor engagements. But at anytime if you can’t you have a get out jail free card. You can just WARP HOME!

Out of all that I forgot to mention the easiest thing which is to simply repair your BC with scvs or mules. You will win your engagements vs corruptors because REPAIR IS IN FACT OVER POWERED IN SC2. Your repair will easily keep your BC alive while they kill the corruptors. Numbers are always a thing. Naturally you have to make a good judgement call on if you got what it takes to win. If you are wrong… YOU CAN WARP HOME!


Zerg is under powered.


Statistically the most difficult. PROVEN TO YOU. And you parrot this same nonsense again and again. Zerg literally has the highest average MMR despite playing less than Terran (though more than Protoss).

I’m sure this direct proof will convince you exactly 0% and you’ll come back and say the same stupid thing again in less than a week.


This is not exactly true.

Because if the Terran bank energy to spam mules later on, this means they are being inefficient with time management.

What I am saying is that the income is loss as the Terrans should get the income earlier than banking the energy and this would also mean less army and upgrades.

If you study finance, you will get what I mean. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

Okay agree with this one.

But Zerg and Protoss also have their own advantages and their forgiving aspects too like supply drop.

Zerg can do a tech switch easily by just getting a building and can mass units at a very quick rate. This means that playing zerg is more forgivable for not being able to scout your opponent’s build earlier.

As for Protoss, they got a free macro mechanic unlike the Terran and Zerg that needs to pay 150 minerals for Orbitals and Queens. So Protoss don’t have the right to complain unless they also start paying up 150 minerals per nexus for chrono boost.

Furthermore Protoss have a lot of cheesy builds like photon canon rush and etc which forces the opposing team to have a better reaction than the canon rusher to win the game.

All I am saying is every race got their advantages and ways to be more forgiving and so there is nothing wrong for Terran to have a forgiving mechanic in supply drop. Furthermore mules are more superior to supply drop and if the Terrans keep using supply drops, this means less mules and scans.

This is not exactly true because using scans will deprives the Terrans from their mule income which is a necessity to compete with the Zerg’s spawn larva and the Protoss chrono boost.

So if the Terran uses too much scans, they will be behind in army production and upgrades and if the scan does not provide any valuable intel, that would make it even worse.

Anyway Zerg can use overseer to scout for free also through changeling. Plus Zerg’s creep spread is permanent vision unless destroyed which would make zerg scouting very powerful.

Protoss can use sentries’s hallucinations (usually Phoenix) to have free scouting also. Plus observers are permanently cloaked and being a detector, they are actually the game’s best scout.

Based on the above reasons, I would say that Terran scouting is not superior compare to Zerg and Protoss.

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Kid’s just brain dead, man. Arguing that Terran has superior scouting to Zerg, ZERG of all things. They have literal ledges built in to every single map to allow their supply depots to see every time you move out for the first 6-8 minutes of a game.

With an ounce of nuance you can understand that while Zerg has the best scouting, they need it. Because if they didn’t have it, they’d never have a single indicator of when to drone. But he can’t even do that. Everything about Terran is “easy” to this 3500 MMR Zerg God.

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This is what you get when you cater to certain population for 13y
“Me spamming T while shift clicking my units to certain death is = me playing better than you and not just better 10x better minimum pls give me more buffs and opponent more nerfs”

You missed several points:

  • Supply-blocks barely affect Zerg production in the long-run. Zerg can stock up Larva and batch-produce units when they want to. They don’t start to lose production cycles unless their hatchery is larva capped (they lose a small amount at 3+, and cannot inject past 19, if I recall correctly), and even in those cases Zerg can still use the excess larva on Overlords to ensure that they can keep producing larva unabated despite the supply block. Supply-Blocks are only devastating to Zerg if they need units “immediately” to deal with some kind of push or other threat.
  • Protoss Warp-gates are front-loaded. Being supply-blocked still sucks for them, because it does mean losing production cycles that they cannot get back (the way Zerg can), but at least when a supply block finishes, Protoss can Warp in a round of units very quickly.
  • Chronoboost can also be timed to help “catch-up” after a supply block, but again, Protoss still loses production time during a supply block.
  • Overlords and Pylons are built 20% faster than Supply Depots. I don’t know why this is the case, but it has been the case since SC1 all the way to the LOTV.

Yes on the long run the Zerg production is barely affected unless they are dealing with the immediate threat like what you pointed out. If that’s the case the Zerg would like the necessary counters to immediately deal with the imminent threat.

So I think what posters like larochonxy wants is the equivalent of Terran supply drop for the zerg to have an “instant cure” for supply block.

But in my opinion, spawn larva is already a very powerful mechanic if compared to mules. While mules only increase Terran income, Zerg’s spawn larva is much more flexible in giving the Zerg the choice to either increase their economy, increase their army or a mixture of both.

So if Zerg gets “instant cure” for supply drop just as Terran does, then hunting and killing overlords maybe pointless and thus potentially making Zerg overpowered as it would be much more difficult to halt Zerg production.

Plus unlike orbitals and queens, chrono boost is free. So Protoss have no rights to complain about Terran instant supply drop mechanic unless they agree to pay 150 minerals for chrono boost per nexus.

Chrono boost can also be used for upgrades even during supply block. So the Protoss may not lose much in terms of chrono boost usage.

Not aware of this.

This is indeed strange. I see no reasons why Terrans need longer time to build their supply as compared to zerg and Protoss.

Perhaps in the past during SCBW itself, Terran could build barracks before depot to rush their opponents and that’s why there is a need for longer build time for depots.

But since changes have been made for barracks to require depots just as Protoss requiring pylons to warp in gateways, then it makes sense for Terran to have the same build time as Protoss to build their depots.

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The weird part is there are no patch notes ever changing the build time, so as far as I can tell, this dates back to the very introduction of StarCraft without a single change.

Terran’s production system also requires taking SCVs off the line, which hurts economy in the long-run, and Terran has more or less always had an extra supply available (until the LOTV economy rework) to compensate for that.

No it’s not unlike EZ mode Terran if you drop chrono and terran decide to A move you it’s insta death if you don’t have 50 energy for battery
UNLIKE TERRAN… Oh i forgot for entire minute to macro no problem let me just spam mules on new fresh base maybe 1 less than usual cause this game i extra suck and need 1 for supply

Yup we can chronoboost our upgrades while Terran a move us and pressing T like there is no tomorrow and 10 sec later we can write gg

That doesn’t make sense.

You don’t necessarily need batteries to deal with Terran bio.

You have Colossus and High Templar’s storm which deals huge AOE damage to Terran bio.

If you want to argue about easy mode, Protoss are the easy mode race for the following reasons:

  1. All Protoss units have shields which increases their life significantly
  2. Protoss have a lot of cheesy strats like photon canon rush which forces the opposing player to react better than the canon rusher or lose the game automatically
  3. Protoss have many a-move units such as Colossus, zealots, Carriers, Void Rays and etc.

That’s assuming you are without an army for the Terran army to be able to a-move you and win the game immediately.

You only need a handful of Colossus or High Templars to be able to defend the base while waiting for the supply block to be over.

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Yes we do

At first Terran attack you have either lamebals or 2 colossus both negated by raven (that is if Terran use at least 1% of his brain cells) later you have raven and “GHOST” and mass tank and thor and vikings and battlecruisers and widowmines

I said it once and il repeat it again if at this iteration of Terran you suck at this game and specially vs Toss it’s time to buy yourself console and play single player games i suggest you to start with the last of us be strong and independent

This isn’t a game of “rock paper scissors”. It’s a game of skill. Fun fact, you can meet the push half way. Pick off units, or more importantly, force raven energy to be burned. You do that early enough and suddenly the raven is useless and can’t shut down the colossus when it matters.

To counter that, a Terran is going to try and conserve their raven energy by keeping it back so it can’t be sniped; this gives the protoss an oportunity to poke and prod at marines which during this first push pretty much never have a medivac (because they have a raven instead) to heal them, so any damage done is important.

Like I said, a battle of skill occurs between two competent players.

Frankly speaking, Terran and Toss have been close to, or dead on even for a very long time. It’s only the most recent map pool in which that changed, and even then not all that much. Zerg has always been the outlier in pro play pretty much up to the start of this year.

Having said that, we play ladder and ladder plays somewhat differently from pro-play, and Protoss players generally do quite well on ladder where the general variety of openings that they are capable of play out in a best of 1 setting, rather than a best of 3, 5, or 7.

Both of which are generally extremely bad against Protoss for a variety of reasons I’m not going to get into right now.

Are specifically only good if your opponent is on the “Low Functioning” end of the Autism Spectrum, or if you’re in that ultra-late game situation where your opponent has somehow allowed you to do a transition that is simultaneously the most expensive transition of all time (They are literally more expensive than any other unit in the game not named the Mothership - and that’s changing in the next patch - nor does it take into account the cost of the production either) in addition to being the most time consuming transition in the entire game to make.

While BC tech can be produced early on in the game, it’s not actually effective outside of that ultra lategame situation. When it IS in that state, with enough numbers, then BCs are very, very strong. But that’s such a niche situation vs Protoss specifically that it really isn’t even a concern currently.

Are frankly a necessity. A poorly designed necessity, but a necessity nonetheless.

Side-note, I’d like to see mines have their build time reverted back to the 28 second build time, rather than the current 21 second build time we have. It’s only a few seconds difference, but a few seconds can mean the difference between another warp in, or losing a significant chunk of your economy.

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Terran nerfed then nerfed again and then when you start to cry some redesign that is actually nerf and then 2y down the road some patch that is maybe kinda some sort of a buf

@Alternate, in case it wasn’t clear.

Your mindset is exactly the kind of mindset that should be kept as far away from game-balance as possible. Regardless of the game or components being discussed.

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The naysayers on this thread don’t know what they are talking about

Oh it’s the problem when Terran should receive Toss treatment what happened with those at least 10x and then instead buf we could just say you know guys game is balanced it’s maps and then next season we make even worse maps for Terran and call it a day

you know toss is easy race right? I played toss to prove a point and got to high diamond in less than 100 games. ez pz race

Rly a Terran player telling me what’s ez race???
What is next you actually had to use keyboard when playing Terran???

Terran is SO EZ that literally everyone who plays it has worse MMR even though they have the most experienced player base and the most active player base because their all just bad. From a Protoss player of all things. Try to remember to breathe so you don’t accidentally forget and die.

Literally provable that Terran is the most difficult.