Zeratul, Stetmann, and Mengsk

I’m debating with myself on which commander I should master first. I like all of them and want to hear what people think of the trio. I may end up training myself with all three in the end, just need a starter.

Zeratul:

  1. Fewer units but stronger, and very good at surviving.
  2. Modular CDs for all situations.
  3. Towers that could go offense via projection, even dishing out AoE stun.

Stetmann:

  1. Stetallite provide vision and passive buff, and could be charged for even greater buff.
  2. Gary could AoE, teleport, and generate its own zone.
  3. Wide variety of unit composition.

Mengsk:

  1. Fast building, expendable, and versatile troopers that could be deployed at anywhere.
  2. Four CDs proving defense, economy, crowd control, meat shields, and siege.
  3. Earthshatter dropping AoE on most of the map from afar.

The three commanders there are probably among the top 5 commanders when it comes to mutation immunities along with Abathur and Tychus. I perfer to use Stettmann because not only is he amazing at pushing through all phases of the game, but he’s also probably the best support too. I usually go with mass Hydras and keep the greenfield on the majority of the game, but sometimes I will still use Infestors if the situation calls for it.

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Zeratul is generally going to be the easiest, and simpliest to play on both army and cannon spam fronts. Very easy to handle and manage.
Stetmann… I don’t recommend. His lag causing ability rivals that of Stukov and Han & Horner combined. I wish he didn’t generate so much lag…
Mengsk is fairly rewarding once you learn the seemingly 50 different ways to play him. A lot of people will just play defense + ESOs, but there is so much more to him than that.

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I’d generally agree with Sprite, though I don’t have a problem with Stetlag.

Zeratul is the easiest, seriously, so little macro that I can play him well even though I haven’t brought him yet, others I did.
As for Stetmann and Mengsk, they’re quite macro-heavy but they’re great commanders as well.

Stetmann you have to get used to his stetlites macro and abuse Super Gary cooldowns, lots of sinergy with most commanders and pretty much the best support commander around, the only thing that keeps me from saying you should go for it, is that massing a ton lings+a bunch of stetlites on the map will make the game quite laggy, so avoid making more lings than Zagara.

Mengsk is the one that I reccomend playing to master if you want hard but fun macro, the thing about him that makes me like him more than most commanders, is that he has more army compositions that even though not the most effective, are completelly viable on brutal, battlecruiser and marauder with their upgrades are the way to go for army Mengsk, but then, ghosts with nukes, 1-2 ghosts just to emp protoss and hybrids, Thors against mutas or air comps, Tanks with medivac upgrade vs Zerg, marauders vs any ground comp, battlecruiser vs anything really…and I not even mentioned the troopers with weapons to deal with enemy comp, calldowns and earthsplitters, he has so many options, soooooo many, most commanders lives around 2-3 army comps and that’s it, may have more but very underpowered compared to what Mengsk can do.

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Thx for your suggestions! Yes, I notice Stetmann occasionally has lag too, but also on harder difficulty/late game Zerglings are no longer useful against Hybrids and high level units, and lag becomes a non-issue when you switch to Ultralisk and Infestors.

I’m very curious as to what some of them are. O_O

Zeratul is boring. There is only one path to play with this Commander. Cannon spam is dead, not a bad thing overall but it force Zeratul to play the same every single game: Just mass Army and A-move.

Stetmann and Mengsk on the other hand, have many variety of playstyles you can play with. Stetmann has some lag issue if your ally or your computer is below average. Just go make yourself a 1200$+ computer and you should be fine with him.

Defensive with Tanks + Witnesses
Defensive with Tanks + ESOs
Mass ESO
Mass Shadows/Nukes
Standard Army
If you’re really nutty, Royal Guard only + Witness

I find the most rewarding compositions to be Trooper + 10 Intercessor + 4 Shadows + 2 Blackhammer + 2 Pride + 1 Witness. Add in Aegis Guards if you wish. Add in more Blackhammers or Prides as need be.

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I’m in the Mengsk camp too. He’s a bit hard to get started with, but I think he has a really good solution for everything with cheap fodders, the powerful guard units that level up and powerful, relatively short cooldown calldowns. Also notably, almost all his units have AoE, which is super great.

I also noticed that I haven’t really needed ESOs, maybe because I usually pump out a lot of guard units and don’t have the gas for it.

Instead of saying what are valid compositions, I’m going to give you my opinion on what each unit does:

Troopers - fodder, cheap, pretty effective under Indoctrination and with weapon upgrades; I usually build 4 CCs to rain down men.
Witness and Intercessor - area boost and detection, and heal; basic support that you need, make 2 witnesses ASAP and put over your bases, hotkey at least 1 separately to move with the army, and 5 intercessors are usually enough for the trooper ball.
Aegis Guard - tanky marauder, easy to level up. A lot of people say that you can just lolspam those for ground exclusive comps and I kinda agree, although I would put in a few tanks in the back. Also gets healed so less micro if you can’t be bothered with transforming troopers back and forth. Gets AoE with promotion too.
Emperor’s Shadow - haven’t used those too much to accurately judge them, on-demand mininuke is nice if you can build like 10 ghost academies.
Shock Division - my meat and butter. Instant siege, AoE, stun with promotion, IMO one of the better siege tanks along with Stukov’s. I really used to like Nova’s, and I still do, but I’m just much more used to these now.
Blackhammer - amazing vs any kind of air, it’s like an AoE AA liberator basically. Super fast attack with AoE basically kills anything, but the larger circle comes with promotion, which could take a little bit. Also, needs some babysitting with repair.
Sky Fury - probably really good against void shards, shuttles and air comps, but they need some micro to take advantage of the promotion perks, which I don’t have. Also, the only unit that lacks AoE against air, so I feel like Blackhammers are just much better against air.
Pride of Augustgrad - needs careful babysitting in the beginning, but getting AoE triple tap yamato at level 3 basically wipes waves as they spawn. Super expensive, so getting like 3 is usually the upper limit.

That being said, like most commanders he may have some problem with the explodey zerg comps mostly because of vipers. Then again, fodders are cheap.

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I confess I’ve NEVER built Shadow before. Multiple academy and nukes?

10 Intercessor? Damn, the A-Move bug discourages me to have more than 6. Got a solution for that?

4 Shadows. I really should try it.

Expendable structures, Flame troopers, and that Aegis Barrier exists. Just saying.

Yes I know that.

–“may”–

Zeratul probably is the best. I’m not a fan of hunting for Artifact Fragments as it’s a chore (even with waypoint and rally line tricks), but it’s a “necessary evil”.

Ditto. I’ve only ever gotten Stetlag when he first came out. It seems Blizz did refactor their code or whatever to make them much better in that regard. Although it should be noted that the hardware I play on is really good, so there’s always that.

stet seems weak, Z-tool, quite the opposite, Mengi, exp gain is nice, but since most maps are short, youre not getting an army of vet 3 guards.

15% exp gain vs even faster expand is in most cases hard to not do, because it allows for extra fast tech to propaganda, which in turn allows for ability spam.

On map like dead of night, where your workers arent plentiful/in bunkers, propaganda wont work on those inside, so most of your mandate comes from the Guards. (reminds me of soviet Guards armies)

If you cant leave it, love it, is so much reminiscent of the iron curtain lol :smiley:

Its not arcturus, its Yosiph Vissarionovich Mengsk in space.

Too much money in the military, little for the common guy, since the gunsare so expensive, selling them would make a lot of money :smiley: whereas manpower is sort of expendable. ‘I’m not expendable’ … you wish lol.

20% guards cost reduction is huge, vet 3 marauders have 525hp+300 shield once per minute. Stimpack triples dps. Each shot is almost as good as pvp tank (35/70 armored)
Deployed propaganda helps a lot with non stimmed dps, while adding some even to stimpack dps output. 1 Cruiser for 1 range, armor aura is basically useless.

tactical small nukes are free, so all you got is wait for cooldown. If oyu want to throw some 20 if quick succession, sometimes its good to hold fire, shift, and a hardened target goes. Sort of alternative to ESO.

ESO I do not like, depends on the map whether they are all that useful.

No idea why two guns fire at once, with only one shell landing :smiley:

The other one is blank and the shell is sold on the black markit right :smiley:

flying shooting tanks are funny, but 8 pop cost is almost as big as cruiser at 10 and same as the blackhammer walker.

vs air you have AA missiles in troopers, or them in bunkers for 12 range, so there is not much that can outrange you.

What I do not like much is that you cant put either the ghost or marauder in the bunker.

Why ghost has still 6 range for the sniper it was is a mystery to me.

Still, Mengsk WC 3 permanent militia mechanics are a lot of fun.

flamer upgrade goes to 145 hp, from 45 but also causes the trooper to have armored tag, instead of light. The longest range flamer in the bunker is still raynors, at 5, but those are very space inefficient.

On dead of night, spotters cant turn off mengsk bunkers, 1 bunker full of rocketeers will take care of any number of those 500 hp flyers in almost 2 salvos.Your turrets there wont be turned off, unless there are units on the ground close to the bunker aggroing it.

Always. As many as you can, with the “No channeled nukes” research.

Yes, it’s called army shuffling and hotkeys. I almost never have an issue with the Intercessors when my army is properly managed.

EMP > Big blue Hybrids, flying Hybrids, Protoss
Pyrokinetic Blast > Bio Terran, Zerg

EMP is the real MVP though. No energy or shields for them.

Now that’s a great info to have.

I always key Medivec in their own group, and have a few keyed with Aegis and Black Hammer (since they are in the front), but at times they still lag behind. If I put Medivec on follow, will they heal in that mode?

I don’t think so. I never have an issue… They might be getting stuck with your Troopers, as they want to heal their nearest valid target. As such, I keep them up front a bit unless there is something actively threatening them. (Most times there it isn’t.)

and you can also put bunkers in some place to prevent hunterlings from jumping up the ramp, the left player. Some 6 AA bunkers, propaganda for each tank group so their cooldown goes from 3 to 2,5s is pretty good.

Thats if you want to be campy. Flyers cant touch you, tanks have great aoe, but their single target dps is not good at all in siege. Especially for 6 pop cost and that huge gas cost.

Mengsk. Amazing.
Many comps are interesting and will work, but Pride + Aegis rule.

There is great pleasure in medivac doom drops into the enemy base, supported by drop pods, with Y Cannons firing, Aegis unloading with Stimpacks.

Start with tanks if haven’t leveled

Zeratul is satisfying to bring the moving parts together as well, but the army doesn’t have the same visceral feel

Cannon spam is far from dead. They’ve just been reigned in to not being unbelievably broken, and require a bit of practice to use properly. Plus Zeratul has plenty of different unit types and most of them play differently from one another.