I keep seeing players terran,protoss, AND zerg; saying that hydras need to be moved to t1 and move roaches to t2 so the queen can be nerfed or removed. But would that really change much?
Hydras need 2 upgrades before they are viable offensively, but they at least need the speed buff for defense I would assume? How many hydra would it take to kill a BC? It takes at least 3 queens to efficiently kill one BC, and that’s without the yamato cannon. Hydras are light units, I (foolishly) tried to take on 2 BC with around 18 hydras once, by the time I got them in the red I lost over half of them and the BC just teleported out. And my opponent was as bad as me, so he wasn’t utilizing their move and fire function at all. Even if I focused fired one down they can still teleport out while I took actual losses. How will this change if hydras are t1?
With still needing to be upgraded for range and speed?. Wouldn’t they cost more gas? Part of the reason why queens are so good is because they require no gas and are beefy, hydras lack both of these things. How much gas would I have to stock up on to actually get enough hydras to shoo away a BC at the 5min mark? Hydras are really squishy already lol the only way they would have any staying power is if you had plenty of transfuses to back them up. But…that would mean me making a bunch of queens anyway right? And if you use the fuses, then you would have less larva(in the early game at least). So what is the point of putting them at t1 if they would change nothing? Wouldnt the BC still get gurenteed eco damage/drone kills and take no damage? If people at my level arent losing them, no way in hell will a GM or pro lose them.
And thats just defense, wtf is zerg gonna do with t1 hydra offensively?? Idk about vs toss, but vs terran, seige and Marines would shred them like nothing. I could only see them being used purely defensively. And that also means having no ravagers until t2, so all ins would be even more dead than they already are for zerg.
I know I suck and everything, so if I could get some clarity as to what t1 hydras are supposed to look like from a more skilled player that would be nice. Because this isn’t brood war, sc2 is a completely different game and I’m just confused as to how its actually gonna be useful.
Zerg was designed as the defensive race with creep, it should never have had any way of all ining in the first place. Roach ravager is a joke and a disgrace for competitive gaming, it’s far better than hydras in every single way except that they can’t shoot air, other than that it’s better against anything in the game.
No (I was REALLY bad back then ), it was a harrass and I was distracted hy his main army in the front, he did have a tech upgrade adavntage as well but even then I shoulda focused fired, but again tj is a thing, I wouldnt have killed them anyway.
Roach ravager all ins? They arent all that powerful either, especially agaisnt pros. Banshee and immortal would smash them. I rarely see them past diamond league anymore.
Immortal is not good vs Roach-Ravage all ins, as there will simply be too many of them, and enough biles will land to kill off the Immortals, unless the Immortals are constantly being microed back, which is precisely what the Roach-Ravager player wants, so he can start targetting the economy and tech buildings.
don’t think hydra T1 helps much either. Ling, hydra both light units.
Queens are too good for def play -> Tanky + heal (when energetic) and help with creep spread. But they are not good for aggressive play in early - mid game. (Example bio -> harass, fight)
Hydra need upgrades(2) need a meat shield and consume gas.
Since massing queens can hold everybuild in the game, you should build actual units to defend. One OP unit shouldn’t counter every build you can do in game… If you had 1 hydras, you would have to hold with units, which actually cost money and it would be fine. Also banshees wouldn’t suck as they suck now !!! Banshee build are very important for terran to do dmg and deny creep, right now you can mass 6-8 queens and have creep spread like gm and because +1 queen range vs air, if queens lock-on she cna shoot unit even 9-10 range away, it completely changes outcome of whole game !!! In hots you could go 3 cc every game and hold all ins, while do counter damage with hellion-banshee, what you can’t do anymore!!!
Queens arent cyclones, I’ve never seen a queen shoot something from 9+ range.
But how many would you need to counter something like that?? Hydras are light units, they will get shredded in the early game by many openers. I understand toss and terran want to be able to damage zerg in the early game, but I just dont see hydras as the answer for that. People would just make queens anyway. If they nerfed queen AA range to even 5, arent hydras max range 6 after the upgrade? There is no sense in investing minerals and gas into a unit as fragile as a hydra when I can just invest into a few queens. Zerg early game is already fragile, making the air defense based on hydras as they are would be a huge nerf, and that’s not a problem IF they were actually good enough to do their job. But Hellions/banshee/BC/marines would crush hydra. Theres a reason why zerg only build them if the have plenty of meat shields.
Ideally, the nerf to Queens wouldn’t be to their AA range but rather to Transfuse since that’s what lets Queens hold everything. It shouldn’t have any baseline healing. At all. It should just increase Zerg natural regeneration rate by an absurd degree for a short duration.
I seen queen shoot from 10 range banshee in pro game. It has 8 range vs air. Are you familiar how some ranged units work ? If they lock on target, which means units is targeted by queen, don’t take that literally like cyclone !!! They can shoot unit, which is already outside its range. So yes banshees, which would previously live, now die even at 9-10 range !!!
Well t1 hydras could be cheaper and slower off creep, and after getting tier 2 upgradable for little cost.
They could hold:
Hellion-banshee: you could hold with hydras
-hellbat/bahsee: could be hold with hydras as well
also kill liberators.
Hellbat stim marine: don’t know, you would need to make ling-banne for that rather, or roaches
Hellbat marauder: you could kite that. Also queens would be cheaper, since used only for injects-creeping and healing, so they could provide support and heal some units.
tank push banshee: don’t know, but you would use different units, instead queens, maybe hydra/ling
Every build is supposed to have different answer, or at least one unit shouldn’t counter every unit in the game.
Or you could just as easily nerf queen range and hellion/banshee and hellbat/banshee builds would be suddenly viable again and game would be fair, now you can’t damage zerg early on !!!
against ground queen is only tanky. bsp if you don’t watch your queens they will be killed by marines. 16 marine drop no energy or bad micro of heal. You need line/roach against ground.
From a larval and resource point of view, zerg would lose hard and ecco.
And before you say zerg best ecco to min ~5 have p and t same worker count (T + mule, so even more). Currently Zerg works a lot on minerals and takes gas late so Z can drone hard.
With hydra T1, Z needs gas early, meaning less mineral, fewer drones.
Also I am afraid that you trade your hydra badly in eraly.
Ye it would be tricky to implement, but currently game is pretty stupid. Mass one op unit and hold every build in the game… It wouldn’t have to be hydras per se, people said hydras, because they were t1 in broodwar. They could cost even minerals only e.g. who knows.
Who does 16 marine drop nowayday anyways ? You go queen ling vs that, i don’t see why ling/hydra wouldn’t work. But vs tank marine/banshee don’t know how would that work out, people used ling/banne and mass queen.
This. This is exactly what I was thinking, the amount of damage zerg would take to eco is crazy if they did this. Hydras are not the answer to anything as they are.
Ohh I know what you are talking about, the queen isn’t firing from 9+ range. The queen is firing from 8 range, but the banshee simply backed up and the already fire missile followed it because the queen fired while still in range. You only get hit once like that, but no queen is able to continuously fire at 9+ range, the devs would’ve fixed something like that if it was really an issue.
T1 hydras wouldn’t be able to hold any dedicated banshee/hellion play. Banshees shred light units, and they would have their speed boost way before hydras got theirs. 3 banshee can one shot a hydra, add that to hellion bonus damage to light and you arent holding anything.
Hydras will have a hard time fighting libs as well because they wont have the +1 range researched yet. You cant have both the speed and the range at the same time. And those upgrades will cut heavily into your gas, so you might even have to delay making more hydras OR delay +1 missile upgrades.
Agaisnt hellbat marauder, why would terran go marauder vs a bunch of light units???
Dude…there is no way you are going to stop a tank/marine push with lings and hydra, you would have to hard switch into banes as well, that’s an extremely gas heavy army for zerg to be having in the early game. You have to also remember the vast amount of air harrass terran and toss have, hydras dont just automatically beat everything that shoots up, they have to be massed to be effective. In the early game you arent going to be able to mass them without severe repercussions. They made roaches armored units for a reason, hydraswould have no staying power in the early game.
But again, that solves their problem vs ground, but what about air? You need alot of hydras to beat a BC, it would still get gaurenteed damage. And hydras would be busted by oracles or banshees, maybe not one banshee but if you bring 2 or more, drones are still gonna fry.
