Why some maps are unusual?

  • The temple map sometimes has the giant on the bottom when it is around 6 min left. Most of times he doesn’t appear and you have a drop on your base instead.
  • Evacuation usually start with 1st ship on your expo. But sometimes the 1st ship is on far left or bottom locations.
  • Part and parcel sometimes has additional bots with parts so its much easier to collect. Also the robo-hybrids sometimes summon an army but usually they don’t.

Why? What does it depend on?

the robots in part and parcel only appear when the enemy race is zerg. there are different variants of the robo-hybrid. one of them summons an army.

Temple of the Past has two versions. One has the first attack warning at 3:15 and the first Hybrid is a ground one, and that has the drops you’re talking about. The other has the first warning at 3:10, the first Hybrid is air, and instead there’s the Thrasher in the central lane at 20:00. I think each version is equally likely but am not sure.

For Miner Evacuation it’s pure chance, and yes, it’s rare.

Part and Parcel it’s tied to the enemy race being Zerg. The Hybrid’s summon ability is just another spell. Each type you fight it I think it uses a different, randomised spell selection. I don’t know the specific probabilities or if there are any patterns.

But why? They are making game easier. Is zerg enemy that harder so the map needs to be made easier?

It’s for the sake of adding variation to the maps.

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Which they really should add more of.

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I have noticed a couple additional variations and I think most of them are OK and improve gameplay.

Some however are hurtful since they disproportionally affect some commanders.

Notable mention here is the first objective on Miner Evac, when it doesn’t spawns on the expo. Not only does that delay expo for some commanders, but it also requires you to have detection a lot earlier, since the objectives outside your expo will spawn cloaked banshees.

I welcome variations, but only if commanders are provided with adequate means to address them. As it stands, its pretty damn unfair for commanders with late detection like stukov.

It’s because Zerg ran wild rampaging on the facility, which activated the bots, but everyone died anyway, and bots are now afking.

Except for those people on the train, trying to escape. But we kill them anyway. Such monsters.

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Stukov doesn’t have late detection any more, that was changed. Plus, just building one turret gives you detection and you drop Aleksander or your bunkers clean up the banshees. Also, are you saying your ally builds no detection either. Anyone can make a mistake the first time, but you learn from it and then it’s no longer an issue. If you’re still struggling then turn the difficulty down or check out some of the really good guides.

Every map and every variation affects commanders differently, it’s how the game works. You adjust according to the map, the enemy comp, etc etc.

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we can all agree miner evacuation is the most random map ever

Ok, didn’t know that.

Of course. And some is fine. Too much is not though. If one commander is at a huge disadvantage, it should be addressed, either by tweaking the map or by adjusting the commander in question (like giving Stukov earlier detection)

Any specific commander in a specific scenario that you have in mind?

I just wish the bonus objectives were less terribly placed.

Blightbringer is fine if you’ve had the upper right shuttle at some point in the game, but I’ve never had a game where the bots didn’t require your whole army to reach.

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This monotonous standardization he is suggesting is dangerous.

Been playing coop forever, not a single map (barring possibly, very tiny slightly CoD even post patch) gives a “disadvantage” to any commander. At best to a specific build.

The worst thing to happen to coop is let’s make everything the same in the name of “subjective fairness”. Variation is key to more fun and playability.

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Right now? Nothing too severe…

The first objective on miner evac. is the most annoying though, when all conditions are right (or more precisely “wrong”). When it doesn’t spawn on the expansion AND you’re playing a commander who can’t clear expansion out alone that early AND your ally doesn’t help out… yeah… its quite annoying to not be able to expand early on, when you know that other commanders would have had 0 trouble solo expanding and defending first objective.

Now that i mention it: those irregularities are annoying when they happen early on, interfering with your macro / expansion. The one on temple of the past for example is not annoying at all, since it occurs way after early game.

Which commander are you having trouble with on irregular Miner Evacuation first shuttle spawn?

The following are enough to solo:
Raynor - Duskwing + Hyperion, with a few bio
Kerrigan - Herself + Nydus
Artanis - Any number of builds (Zeal/Goon, Goon/Immortal, Reaver/Zeal, etc.)
Swann - ARES + static
Vorazun - DTs + 1 Corsair or Stalkers
Zagara - Herself
Karax - Cannon or Sentinel opening
Abathur - Brutalisks
Alarak - Himself
Nova - Herself
Stukov - Apocalisk + Aleksander
Fenix - Any champion a.i. opening that has coverage.
Dehaka - Himself
HH - Magmines + Galleon units + Spacestation
Tychus - Himself
Zeratul - Legion + Himself
Stetmann - Super Gary

Even with these the expansion delay only occurs if your ally isn’t helping at all. And even then it’s a 2min delay on average.

I don’t believe any commander is at a huge disadvantage to all others. True, some are better than others at various things, but you need to actually give real examples rather than just emphatically stating something. Did you see how @FearrWhalins listed examples for first shuttle on ME?

Did you mean cannons AND sentinels? Please explain.

How many cannons at expansion and how many on objective? Any monoliths?

How many sentinels to clear expansion?

I can’t imagine ARES uptime to be enough to clear both expansion area and first objective area… from my experience its barely enough for the expansion alone. And until cleared, static defenses are not an option.

Well yeah… but 2:00 minutes delay on your expansion is quite significant. 15 workers mine around 600 minerals per minute… not to mention the gas. With that much delay, Karax could use solar beam instead of spending resources on static defenses.

Nope, you won’t have enough mineral to go both as Karax. Go either one. You can always use SoA to help clear expansion.

Swann’s ARES can help you clear either expansion or objective area. The other will have to be your Drill/ability. If you don’t know how to open that way, just watch some pro Swann videos for Drill opening. Otherwise, TL’s tank/HERC opening works just as well since it takes very little to hold 1st objective. Remember we are still talking about strict solo, which is rare in comparison.

And on your last point, you are again nitpicking man. That delay is only present if your ally isn’t helping. By your sentiment, then we shouldn’t expand? Or what was your point? Some commanders can only go so fast by design. So a relative 2min delay isn’t ideal but it is what it is. Why point out that you’ll get an x amount of resource lost? Would you rather expand on time then lose an objective? Then further complete the map 3-5min later because you’re 1/2 ships destroyed by infested instead of 0/2?

You can’t have corsair that early. It was possible only when we had a bug with chrono boosting buildings under construction.

Any is not reliable. Air will loose the ship because doesn’t stalk damage on themselves. Zealots are pretty weak. Best option is immortal-coloss or coloss-adept.