No unless they want to lose or all in. Your base timing is a bit later. Doesn’t mean you fight 3 base with 2base until Protoss starts taking 4th. That would be suicidal.
It’s just that the largest and most vocal player base is Terran.
To make things worse, most people dont understand the nuances of SC2 economics. It’s more than just counting bases and workers.
Ad to that the moronic tools that Blizzard has for assessing balance (perceptions, feelings, frustration) and you have an incendiary mix.
Do you feel it is your job/duty to parrot that terran is weaker?
To what extent does that make up your self esteem?
Is it a desperate need to feel special through a non-achievement?
Will your life fall apart if you came to terms with your made up fantasy?
Yes i agree. In standard play, base saturation looks something like that:
1 base p | 1 base T
2 base p | 1.5 base T + 2 mules
3 base p | 2 bases T + 3 mules
At 4+ bases the saturation comparison changes do to 4 mules being equivalent to 1 fully saturated base.
A warp prism doesn’t 1-shot 20 scvs in 0.1 seconds.
A Warp Prism wins you the game if you’re slightly out of position, which you have to be, constantly, in TVP, because you literally have to push every second before their econ grasps you.
A warp prism causes the terran to transfer his scvs, f2 + t + a-click his army.
Excuse me but, which economy lead are you talking about ? I don’t see any, if anything terran has the economical lead in TvP maybe it’s time for you to check what you are saying before talking non sense right?
I’d like to stress here that only 2 of the posters in this thread are actually consecutive masters who understand the current play of the game. everyone else here is just reposting “le zerg/terran/protoss whine”
I hate all of you.
It’s from the balance team. The balance team has stated Protoss has an economic advantage. Go check the latest balance patch notes.
Balance team is clueless they nerfed observer move speed for no reason whatsoever because they just hate Protoss
Now if you look at the real games, protoss is ALWAYS behind in economy, namely because they take the 3rd slightly earlier but can’t mine from it while terrans will mine more with mules. Also terrans have the potential to harass that protoss doesn’t. Look at worker count on any TvP game and you’ll see what I mean
LOL, Terranshills read one thing and understand something different.
The amount of difference between reality and their delusion (which thay consider the reality itself) is breathtaking!
Terran players often talk about feeling economically behind, especially in the TvP matchup. While we are open to making changes to Terran economy, a blanket buff is not something we’re currently looking at
Terran shills: Blizzard said Terran economy UP. We are economically weak because…we said so.
No further comments necessry.
Patients should be given elephant doses of: chlorpromazine, haloperidol, thiothixene, trifluoperazine, perphenazine and thioridazine.
“While we are open to making changes to Terran economy, a blanket buff is not something we’re currently looking at considering the state of TvZ”
Let me just leave this quote from their update here as well… So we can have context
And then they gave access to cloaked mines faster… not sure how that fixes eco issue.
There’s one thing I would like to add regarding the calculations of Protoss saturation/chrono and the Terran mules. You cannot expect T to always mule/ It is race with least reliable detection until you have enough money/units/orbitals to be able to afford it.
First from the standpoint of playing it safe and keeping energy during dangerous timings or well during being pressured by any DT build. DT expand builds are incredibly frustrating and hard to deal with and usually put you into position of all in or lose because every minute will put you more behind - even if they do little to no damage. Getting rid of obs to prevent for example blinkstalker pushouts also cost big money because of not using mules.
In ZvT you simply reject mules by doing creep spread. Creep spread ultimately has no cost other than apm, if you can be fast you are draining the T economy without investing anything.
Anyway if you force T to save the scans or kill the mule in the push you reject big part of economy for which otherwise you would need to kill several workers. Compared with two other macro mechanics of Z and P it can be really flimsy.
Point is calculating based on dropping mules whole game as bases are added is unrealistic.
There are also nuances like SCVs having to build the building while probes don’t. In case of zerg you need to sacrifice the drone though. Stuff like that. I just saw some simple 1-1 calculations so wanted to add something.
Dude, seriously what’s the point of you being you?
The original mine nerf is what set the Terran Econ behind for so long.
Every race has there ECO mechanics and you should expect players to use them until the cost of using it offset the reword given by set mechanic.
Yes, specific builds and harrasment options have an impact on the economy, and if this impact is too big it should be addressed. But requesting a nerf to race ECO in all stages of the game because specific build order is a problem should not be an option.
We need to establish an economy grow baseline from with we can derive the impact of each build on the economy, those constant and systematic use of Mules, Chrono, or Inject should be a requirement for set baseline.
After we establish a baseline for all 3 races we can recreate build orders and counter build orders and judge if the cost/reward ratio of performing it needs to modify or we are happy with the current ratio.
That is why Terran players actually build a raven almost in EVERY game in TvP it’s litteraly a VERY VERY reliable detection, on top of that it can be used for harassment, deactivating key units, seeker missile that increases the marine’s DPS by 50% early on, but yeah that’s not a “reliable detection”
Disruptor-Storm-Tempest is the answer but you need all 3
Terran have a timing window of opportunity with Viking-Ghost than Lib with +2 and range(after Disruptors replace Colossus)-Ghost.
Trap vs Innovation game 2 Inno lost because Trap had disruptors and Inno didn’t had Libs.
Try holding up your natural from WP-Blink Stalker shenanigans, while toss takes the third behind - THAT is the real challenge of TvP match-up.
On the ladder when game makes it to 3 vs 5 it is easier because most of Protoss player continue to sit on mid game unit composition (Colossus-Chargelot-Stalker-Archon) and don’t tech up so you can get VERY favorable trades.
At most they’re slightly favoured. If anything, the Ro8 proved that you can play macro games vs Protoss.