What do you guys think of Karax's Templar Apparent Prestige?

What do you guys think of Karax’s Templar Apparent Prestige where you can build his armies 40% cheaper?

Strengthened army Karax, far easier to get it going while exacerbates the same poor build order opening of newer players.

Its so strong there is no reason not to pick it, vanilla Karax is useless at this point. It also shows very clearly how much the unit tax is such a crippling feature in the commander and why it should be removed for good.

12 Likes

And what kind of units should P2 Karax build or mass?

By far one of the best prestiges, I do think P1 is stronger but you don’t have that much of gas starvation anymore.

The main weakness for Karax with P2 is the lack of cannons, maps with infested you must rush sentinel revive and colossus straight up, against Terran you must have observer at ramps to deal with ghosts that will nuke you if not carefull.

Something that also turns a few people down is that it’s fairly one-dimentional, obiously because you can make army but there’s no static defense+SoA support style of defense, some of them will do miss this.

However, 78 minerals on a melee unit that takes effort to actually lose them is a big deal, carrier Karax is back and mirages can be actually massed you can get anti-air without relying on SoA, mind you that SoA got cheaper this patch too.

Colossus can be added to imortal army no problem. The only thing that you should not do with this prestige is to go for all tech, literally mixing carriers and imortals/colossus and getting all upgrades, but same can be said to most commanders. Not a unique Karax issue anymore.

3 Likes

With units that cheap, you can practically do anything honestly.

Mass Immortals with Shadow Cannon was already viable as P0 Karax. Given where it sits in the tech tree, doing Colossi isn’t much different (slight up cost that is now negligible due to the prestige cost reduction).

Even Carriers are just as easily gotten out. So really no limit.

The issue with Karax is that people need a good build order to start. Otherwise, the same problem occurs (as I see a lot of Karax still do - multiple production structures for no reason).

3 Likes

it is fun to play karax offensivly. prestige talents can be selected before each game, meaning that the player gets to select the best build for any situation, unless playing random. random is pretty much broken for me however, as i get part and parcel or cradle of death every time.

  1. Sentinel+mirages and their attack upgrades;
  2. Sentinel+Imortal, add 1-3 colossus for more dps, need to micro shadow cannon and SoA for anti-air;
  3. Sentinel+Carriers, start off with sentinels but keep teching into carriers, only upgrade charge and revive, leave the gas to pump 2 carriers at a time and air attack upgrade, add another stargate after starting 3+ air, have sentinel on a different control group than carriers, this is to keep beffy units in place and mineral dump, also protect energizers.
  4. Sentinel+Imortal+mirage, rarelly used but possible, mirages comes before imortals, shadow cannon to burst beefy air units down.
6 Likes

I know a lot of people like Carrier Karax but I love Robo Karax. Sentinels to tank, energizers, shadow cannon immortals, and a few Colossi!

Shadow cannon and Spear of Adun can typically deal with the air units. Zerg air gives me most issues as robo Karax and I often opt to add stargate against that comp. But energizer robo Karax is one of my favorite comps in the game!

7 Likes

IMO, it is too powerful, while it is a huge boon for Karax.
25% or 30% discount would suffice since Karax’s Units are tough as nails and their ability extremely potent.

On unrelated note, I think that the prestige system is made solely to rebalance Karax.
Think about it, he was the most unpopular commander and his prestiges are made to significantly strengthen him (which they really succeed).
Besides while there are good prestiges, some seem uninspired and underdeveloped as if the developers were forced to give them a prestige.

5 Likes

Poor Swann, no one loves him.

6 Likes

Lol just an add-on: emphasis on Energizer.

I just assumed that as a given, anyone looking to play Karax without Energizer is looking to gimp themselves.

3 Likes

I thought Alarak was the most unpopular (not be a wide margin, but he did eek out Karax there).

Ironic how Karax used to catch so much flak… it’s now been diverted to Swann.

3 Likes

I think I’d like this. However, if I wanted somebody who excels at pushing, I’d probably just pick Artanis. As a bonus, he has Goons. OTOH, having SoA lasers still provides for a unique experience.

Well, the unit tax was 30%, and his P2 is -40% on top of that, for a net effect of 22% cheaper, so we’re already there (unless you mean only -25 to 30% from the unit tax)

2 Likes

The thing is while this prestige is great, it seems that Karax is just popping units out so easily.
And all of his units are extremely superior.
So making the discount decrease will nullify unit cost penalty or leave it +5% cost (from default unit cost).
IMO cost and power isn’t really balanced for this prestige.

It’s my favorite prestige for him, though I haven’t unlocked P3. On paper, it doesn’t look quite as fun. I didn’t realize how diverse and interesting his army composition can be, and now I’m actually getting to enjoy it without the slow buildup.

I especially like it after remembering he can still build shield batteries. So once you get instant build pylons/batteries, you can make little forward stations as you go and to intercept attack waves if you have the minerals to burn. You can get a lot done with a little with 2-3 shield batteries while you’re getting your expansion up and running. This prestige is especially good with Artanis, since you can both benefit from the battery stations with warp-ins and you can use his topbar warp as well. That and double the solar beams, double the fun. Oh, and your zealots basically get revived twice.

I’m alright if it’s toned down to standard unit cost, but anything less than -30% will make the prestige fairly useless, not worth trading cannons for getting just a few more gas units.

3 Likes

He does lose the ability to make cannons and Monos. They’re immobile, but not to be underestimated. Without his towers, his units have to pull double duty in that respect.

Pre-Prestige, I’ve ran into Karax players who play him like he’s Artanis… make units and push out with SoA lasers. They make not one single tower, of which I’m sure his P2 would be heaven for them.

I’ve been doing this as Karax for ANY protoss ally. Artanis is definitely a main benefactor, as he has few methods to recover shields quickly outside of Batt. Vorazun does, but not having to drop a Dark Pylon for power fields is nice. All other Protoss COs alike.

1 Like

As always it comes down to player:

If you could not play P0 well you won’t be playing P2 well either.

As an example: my ally went the usual noob build, pylons, production, upgrades, no units for 12 min. I finished the map myself in 13 min. I hope he got to enjoy moving his army across the map for 30 sec and actually engaging enemy for another 30 sec.

Do not be that guy. Use brain, make units that help with the map and enemy composition.

1 Like

P2 karax is my favorite, you can still build shield batteries which are fantastic on defensive maps and even on offensive maps if you can kite the enemy towards your batteries.

One thing that sucks as P2 karax is lacking any automated defense to kill ghosts or hunterlings or whatever else might come to attack your base/workers.

Since Karax has no combat unit that “deploys” (like lurker or siege tank) if you use F2 hotkey the units u leave to defend base get sent to the frontlines.

Try to rush the zealot revive upgrade if you will be making zealots, it doubles the value of each.
Energizers are phenomenal, make sure you have a few in your army (along with the energy regen upgrade).

1 Like