Tychus masteries and enemy unit composition question

Yea but only when I’m facing mutations like Double Edged. It’s not worth having both of them otherwise.

Honestly, Rattlesnake and Medivac is all I need in MOST situations. I really only take Nikara anymore for dealing with heavy damage mutations.

Rattlesnake over Niadra every time !!
Honestly once you buy his first upgrade, RS heals fast enough that Tychus and Co. have pretty great survivability.
Plus his attack, and non suicide pathing makes him so much easier to use.

Everyone has an opinion on who’s good and bad. If you’re new at something, try everything first, and then see what people think. People seem to dislike nikara, but I like her a lot.

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Nikara is a crutch if you don’t want to micro to much, but effectively slows down how you deal damage. There is not a single case when taking Nikara is better than taking Rattlesnake unless it’s already your 5th outlaw and you want to boost Nux’s storm damage for some reason.

Biggest counter to Tychus? Chokers on DoN :).

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I always play P2 and no composition particularly slows it down rather just the limits of my own attention/apm.

Double Edge and Fatal Attraction are really the only 2 B+1 mutators that make me question my life choices and really are manageable by themselves it’s only when combined with others that I might consider instant quitting.

Just avoid Nikara - use Rattlesnake instead (usually as first).
Nikara AI is so bad and will constantly either get herself killed (by rushing ahead) or will randomly stop moving and not be near combat when you need her most.
And no, right clicking on an outlaw with Nikara is not reliable.

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Pretty much this. Nikara first, unless you want to mix in Mutations (namely Black Death), is always a bad choice outside of leveling up. Rattlesnake will always outperform her in the early and mid game. Later into the game, when you have 4 other Outlaws up (Tychus included), then you can pick up Nikara for the damage up.

Yeah, the only comp i ever use Nikara for is as a late 2nd hero for Bc/Carrier/thor Mind control comps on Malwarefare or occasional ultra heavy damage mutators where i just can’t be bothered anymore. Or if you need a detector first.

I think there was like a loose chug once, i think i routinely have all my outlaws like 100% hp with the x2 rattlesnake healing upgrade routinely as one of my first upgrades for easier constant 100% aggression on P0/P3.

I think there was a loose chug, and i think one of the things was that, both comps were pretty much viable, but Rattlesnake could always keep a army 100% hp healed for base brutal as long as you do pretty minimal micro.

Move damaged units a bit to the back so they split healing, Manually pull sirius forward to tank if you need, and it’s not uncommon for rattlesnake to routinely get 60k-120k+ healing numbers to 15k-20k kerrigan or 10k-40k Nikara healing numbers when i run double healer MC even when the Rattlesnake is only 1 upgrade (2x healing), while nikara is 2/4 - 4/4. (double healing+ 2x healing),

Now as far as things go, i think the arguement was that nikara could offer more burst damage with the +25% pulse. But i often found that if she’s the only healer, she has a bad habit of making early game slower while still not fully healing lategame and wandering away from the main army. And while Tychus can be known as a easier army, take his healer away and he seems to die much noticably faster as he’s sold as a dps god, but he’s actually more like a hidden healbrawler imo who secretly has the best potential to heal any army to 100% hp in 20 seconds with a grenade that instawipes many comps with easy access to 2 second aoe stuns, 5 second aoe fears with a decent proc chance on Sirius’s upgrade 2, and excellent wave clearing options between Tychus grenade, Blaze’s anti Light infested/Zergling chainfires. (Blaze also works on chainfiring marines too in a suboptimal manner if you want to commit war crimes on a ranged unit… Though Tychus never struggles grenading /storming marines. I wouldn’t do it for a meta build unless you just like setting more people on fire i guess.)

Anyways, i got derailed, but if i had to do a analysis, many of Tychus’s comps are all viable. Even if slightly or significantly suboptimal, it’s hard to build a tychus with even the worst comp for a P you could build for him, pretty much every unit is viable even if not optimal.

Rattlesnake can often 100% heal a standard brutal P0 opener to 100% hp on just one upgrade: x2 hp. Or even one, if you didn’t mind camping in the beams more. but it’s a very worthwhile upgrade. Rattlesnake’s healing can also be ridicolous on p3 if you use the dogwalker to assault the base. But the P3 Odin is independent enough.

I often use a keybind for my main army ± MC army + 2nd Healer Nikara (Malwarefare Double tower camping), Just so i can move my main army seperately while my odin can be separately targeted to roam the map, destroying or softening bases while also being medivaced for the occasional 50% heal or to defend a ally’s base or assault a objective / Destroy more DON buildings / Collect more Parcel parts / Camp a Malwarefare Tower / Defend a split Tower of the past Lane / Go on camping trips with the enemy spawn’s in Mist Opportunities, etc.

As many players previously mention… Every commander has players who can play X commander to 10 apm results and 100 APM results. I think tychus is a greatly micro/ability benefiting commander who can benefit greatly from P3 split pushing, starting chain fires with blaze, And knowing the right tools for the job to set chain fires with blaze, cannonball with self revive can easily counter reavers or be a lategame (20+ min) part and parcel 5th outlaw.

I think in Tychus build. Pretty much any comp you can build works, which is why lots of Nikara users don’t have any problems completing missions with her But… Rattlesnake heals so easily on 1 upgrade while nikara often lacks any ability to heal herself, slows down early game damage significantly.

If you open the game with 1000 hp (2 outlaws), and end the game with 4 outlaws at like 3000 Hp. It’s pretty trivial for a 1 upgrade rattlesnake to have 40 hps while contributing like 30-60 light/armored dps or something, while easily being able to heal like the 120 HPS that nikara heals with 2 upgrades. Add in a 4000 HP odin and a 5th outlaw like self reviving cannonball with 1500 hp, and you’re just having a pissing contest with 4500 HP 5 outlaws + 4000 hp Dogwalker = 380 HPS or 3 Nikaras a second on the “damage healer”…

Add in a ally’s army with say, 100x damaged 20/50 hp units and that’s like 5000 hp as well you could heal for 200 hps by dropping a revitalizer on them.

Despite being a ‘damage dealer’, Rattlesnake can actually be one of the best healing potential units in the entire game by a surprisingly large portion. He can easily outheal Nikara’s base 30 hps with 1 upgrade, while providing a 100% hp army on p0/p3. The only situation i wouldn’t recommend him is when a mutator is destroying his revitalizers or you might want to mess with a 100% detection mutator. Even then, Both will let you heal your armies fine, it’s just that both are brutal viable, rattlesnake just is a great unit.

She’s pretty bad early still, though she works well as no. 3 for a triple fixer build (mind control). Rattlesnake is bad for mind control builds cause he does percentage based healing.

Yeah yeah, for normal base brutal. There’s hardly ever a reason for p0/p3 to build Nikara first other than personal preference (No MUTATIONS), or some gimmicky Nikara Vega openers. But i pretty much use Rattlesnake for all my openers. Even on the main map where Mind control is consistently fun enough to do (Terran/Protoss Malwarefare brutal: 1-2 Battlecruisers +1-2 Thors will always spawn for the north base where 2: Rattle: 2x healing, 3: Vega: +75% dps health mind control → Aoe Confusion->Drag air to ground + Ult gear, 4: Nikara as 2nd healer with 2x healing + 2x beams. 5th: Ignore for tychus +50 dmg grenade + Aoe Stun + -5 armor + ult OR personal fun unit for #5. (I prefer Sirius with 5 second aoe fear proc or Aoe explosion turrets on zerglings/vision/tower dps on malwarefare.

But running Sam (Tower detonations) or Cannonball(Extra tank) on 12-17 carrier/battlecruiser armies with a dogwalker odin is usually enough presence to camp 2-3 points, most of the 5th outlaw is just whatever you feel like building for fun and even Sam gets clipped.

I think the reason you can get away with skipping a sam and running double healers in a battlecruiser/carrier mc build before the c4 can even get to detonate on malwarefare is that, Vega actually has like one of the non throwing best mind controls in the game. (There’s… like only 2.5. Vorazun{nerfed}, Zeratul {One barely used calldown}, Tychus {Viable to 800K:80K malwarefare results but not well known}, and, Karax Reclaimers 33% of the time against mech units? )

Anyways yeah. Even in mind control builds on Malwarefare i still tend to build rattlesnake first. Why? I don’t mind control until the third outlaw and im already 100% hp anyways. Rattlesnake lets me open my ally’s expac faster, but it’s still worth remembering even if you build a nikara. Whether for a fixer build or a P2 heal station (Don’t think there’s any problem with p2 afk healstation nikara tbh. Though Deploying a field to attack in can still be pretty nice. )

Overall yeah, for a base brutal on p0/p3 i’d build like rattlesnake like a 1000 times to uh… 0-3 times i built nikara… Mostly just to test her out, and even for a build like 1. Tych / 2. Healer / 3. Vega on Malwarefare. I always liked Rattlesnake more still. But if you build nikara i wouldn’t say you’re horribly off and won’t complete the mission. You likely will.

It’s just rattlesnake is a jack of all trades who has excellent group healing, and often it feels like even a single 1 upgrade x2 healing Rattlesnake does more to my gameplay to keep a group alive than a 2-3 upgrade Nikara, who often noticably clips the 2nd heal because she can’t move while healing, but won’t move to get in range to heal a second target.

I am significantly more pet peeved by this behavior and her lalala behavior of needing to avoid walking into siege tank fire and walk into zerglings than i am pressing 1-2 buttons per 30 seconds to heal with Rattle. I wouldn’t call her like 100% useless.

Definitely easily brutal viable, and definitely worth using on 2nd healer mc comps on malwarefare definitely, but she’d be like a A-B tier on a list to me that had Rattlesnake as A+ to S tier healing. You bet your butts off that if i had a choice to get two rattlesnakes though or replace Nikara with a walking 1000 hp 4% revitalizer for Malwarefare BC/Carrier Vega MC. I probably would though haha. :rofl: But it’s still worth remembering her maybe if you have a mutation that destroys revitalizers / wants to research 100% detection for we move unseen / Double healer mc builds that nikara isn’t a completely useless unit.

Just usually it’s more that rattlesnake keeps you at 100% hp easily anyways and still has excellent group healing and heals himself without AI quirk problems on P0/p1/p3.

There’s probably not any problems using Nikara at all on p2 to walk around healing a ally though or a double healer.

It’s probably pretty fair for whatever p2 healer gets used to be personal preference though. Since 4% hps of 500-750 hp a second is around 20-30 hps revitalizer single target healing vs 30-60 HPS Nikara, Nikara will probably heal a single p2 outlaw to top faster, while Rattlesnake could just be put on a keybind to walk in, drop a revitalizer, walk away, and maybe hit some buildings or guard a entrance while healing himself. But i hear p2 leans more towards the all attack outlaws like Sirius, Vega, Nux for very fair reasons. and Using a nikara or rattle for personal reasons or because you already have a fixer building is a very fair reason for p2.

(I also feel like there’s also a early game paradox as well. The situations where you want more early game healing, CAN often be resolved quicker by killing enemies faster as well too.

In for instance osrs Runescape, one of the idea was for Bandos Vs barrows armor. Barrows offered 20% more defence, but Bandos offered 10% more dps.

People would often say “But, if i have 20% more defence, my trips will be 20% longer!”, but often, people in bandos armor would respond back. “If you kill something 10% faster, you take 10% less damage”

I kinda feel that a bit with nikara too when i messed with her on p0/p3. The times i picked her to have less downtime than rattlesnake, i often felt like even though both beat base brutal, i spent a noticable 20-40% longer time in combat for the first 2 outlaws with her than Rattle. So instead of saving time on downtime, i found myself often waiting for her to heal… Or having to stop to wait for her to heal herself. rather than being able to constantly nonstop attack. One of the main selling points to me of tychus is being able to constantly attack. If nikara has to stop to wait to heal herself, she’ll still work fine for brutal and revitalizer destroying mutations and p2, but there’s not a lot of times i’d ever build her for p0/p3. And for p1, +40% more revitalizers sounds like more heaven.

But still i’d keep her in awareness for revitalizer destroying mutations since… those do honestly poop over rattle quite a bit.