Trash-tier Prestige Championship

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

Obviously you would think your own suggestion is really great, or you wouldn’t be suggesting it. That goes without saying.

You do know that taking passive aggressive stance is not good for conversations right?

Your feedback is enough.

[Fiddlefaddle-1674]

You do know assuming people’s intentions based on one comment is not good for conversations, right?

My point is you don’t have to hard sell it like that. Why would anyone be suggesting an idea they don’t think is “really great?”

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

Obviously you would think your own suggestion is really great, or you wouldn’t be suggesting it. That goes without saying.

People knows nuances and insinuations from sentences, don’t insult my intellegence.

While I admitted some things of what you said “about anti-air” and gave an answer how to deal with it but you on the other hand just retorted
“Obviously you would think your own suggestion is really great, or you wouldn’t be suggesting it. That goes without saying.” with cynicism and gave nothing in return.

You did said more handicap about anti air with my prestige and that was your feedback, you didn’t build up or give an effort to suggest your idea on the solution.

If you don’t think Han Horner’s prestige 3 needs more upgrade you can just simply say, “prestige is good enough because…”.

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

My point is you don’t have to hard sell it like that. Why would anyone be suggesting an idea they don’t think is “really great?”

Because that person may think that might be the solution to a problem or at least have some salavgeable piece into it. At least that person is putting in some effort to show his ideas.
Let me ask you this,
“Why is it necessary for you to be one-sidedly sarcastic and cynical?”

[RickRumble-1434]

I gotta put my vote in for H&H P3, you put in all the time to get to it and you get… half the power for cost. You only start getting a minor benefit from it after putting in 2200/2200.

I just can’t see a use for it, at least Swann P1 and Vorazun P2 don’t cost 1000s of resources to break even with their supposed benefits.

(To make this constructive criticism, an easy fix could be making the 11th platform and on cost extra.)

[Fiddlefaddle-1674]

I gave you plenty in return for my “cynicism.” I explained exactly why I think it wouldn’t be a good idea. And actually, I’ve given an alternative that I think is better than P3 multiple times on this forum, including this very thread.

And there was nothing sarcastic about my comment at all. I just think saying your own idea is “really great” is redundant and isn’t a good way to try to sell it when it’s already a given you think as much or, again, you wouldn’t be sharing it. Call it cynical all you like. I’ve seen you take some pretty angsty criticism about your ideas before and not get this bent out of shape about it. Relax.

[FearrWhalins-1432]

@RickRumble-1434

minor benefit from it after putting in 2200/2200.

This is probably the most highlighting point about HH’s P3 I’ve seen, despite how many people have mentioned it.

I think sometimes people just need to see the numbers for it to go “ahh, yeah that’s kinda lame”.

I think reducing the cost a bit would make more sense and quite the easy fix. 150/150 or even 125/125 is still quite the price jump (or any other arbitrarily lower than 100% increased cost).

• At 150/150, you make 7 platforms for the price of 10 with P0
• At 125/125, you make 8 platforms for the price of 10 with P0

So conversely:

• At 150/150, for 600/600 additional cost (by 11th), player gains benefit.
• At 125/125, for 375/375 additional cost (by 11th), player gains benefit.

Of course, this doesn’t account for the time invested (which tbh is minor).

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@RickRumble-1434

(To make this constructive criticism, an easy fix could be making the 11th platform and on cost extra.)

Actually, that is one good way to solve the problem.

@FearrWhalins-1432

I think reducing the cost a bit would make more sense and quite the easy fix. 150/150 or even 125/125 is still quite the price jump (or any other arbitrarily lower than 100% increased cost).
So conversely:

At 150/150, for 600/600 additional cost (by 11th), player gains benefit.
At 125/125, for 375/375 additional cost (by 11th), player gains benefit.

• At 150/150, you make 7 platforms for the price of 10 with P0
• At 125/125, you make 8 platforms for the price of 10 with P0

125/125 may work just fine IMO.

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

I gave you plenty in return for my “cynicism.” I explained exactly why I think it wouldn’t be a good idea.

Is this what you are talking about?

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

I had a similar idea, but a bit more of a compromise for people who would say being able to switch is too OP or “if you can’t use a huge part of your kit with P3, lol just deal w/it.”

What about an option to turn your fighters into kamikaze pilots? Fly into air units and explode like a giant Scourge. Either with a longer cooldown than normal bombing, or with a 100-200 mineral cost to rebuild the jet at the platform. It’d be like a bunch of Russells from Independence Day!

If you wanted to make some conversation then why didn’t you mention it sooner? I missed it by the ways.

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

I just think saying your own idea is “really great” is redundant and isn’t a good way to try to sell it when it’s already a given you think as much or, again, you wouldn’t be sharing it.

I personally believe it is a good choice I do and based on actual game play and opinions from other people. By saying something such as

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

Obviously you would think your own suggestion is really great, or you wouldn’t be suggesting it. That goes without saying.

can be seen as extremely condescending.
There are people who tries to explain the solution in great details like Rickrumble and FearrWhalins, you just simply retorting the above quote and not contributing in details just makes you in bad position.

If it wasn’t really cynicism then please reword it to avoid confusion.

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

I’ve seen you take some pretty angsty criticism about your ideas before and not get this bent out of shape about it.

Don’t expect people to take it lightly.

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

What about an option to turn your fighters into kamikaze pilots? Fly into air units and explode like a giant Scourge. Either with a longer cooldown than normal bombing, or with a 100-200 mineral cost to rebuild the jet at the platform. It’d be like a bunch of Russells from Independence Day!

So they are like long-ranged creepers?
I actually considered the Strike Bombers (after bombing) to stay in the map for a some seconds to attack air then leave.
But 100~200 minerals to rebuild it? I don’t know if Han Horner’s heavy mineral expenditure can afford it (or maintain economical balance).
Dehaka’s Creeper Hosts have better utility because maximum of 4 can be expended every 30 seconds without resource.

[RickRumble-1434]

Yeah that makes sense too, the dev’s plan was probably to make it take longer to build up, but stronger later on. But as is it’s just too restrictive. Plus it is still costing supply, so we’re still hurting the army’s size for each on as well.

The thought’s now occurred to me that that would give a pretty strong near permanent attack increase for Han though as well. I could easily support removing platforms from the Horner supply math as well as a replacement disadvantage.

[FearrWhalins-1432]

@RickRumble-1434

Plus it is still costing supply, so we’re still hurting the army’s size for each on as well.

Exactly. I see this with the same exact problem as Abby’s Limitless P3. The cost being high in exchange for uncapped x item is not a bad concept, but the price has to be right .

Same as Abby’s, I think honestly 125/125 in this case or 125 biomass is perfectly fine (though given the new mastery and new drop mechanism, maybe 150 for that biomass).

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@RickRumble-1434

I could easily support removing platforms from the Horner supply math as well as a replacement disadvantage.

Well, for each commanders there’s always a special power unique to each commanders and lot of the players play them for that reason. Han Horner’s is apparently Strike Platforms.
Even having 20~30 Platform is enough for players to have real fun (I know I did).
But the problem for Abathur/Han Horner’s prestige 3 is that it is really difficult to meet the conditions, and effectively removing the fun of it.

If it is cost ineffective and supply restrictive, then your and FearrWhalin’s solution would be ideal (simplicity is the best).

I think it would be best if to keep the same price/biomass and increase the price to 125/150 when going over.

125/125 would be nice for Strike Fighters and 150 Biomass for UE because they are the UE after all.

[Fiddlefaddle-1674]

Dude, seriously, this reaction is so ridiculously out of proportion considering how aggressively people have responded to your ideas in the past. That one little comment is when you decide to be upset and put your foot down, as if I’ve been antagonizing you at length or something?

I already explained my point. I’m not doing it again. Be angry about it and call it condescending if you want. The reaction doesn’t fit the transgression though, even if that was my intent. If I wanted to be toxic, there’s much less benign ways of doing it.

@Dehakaburger-3510

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

I had a similar idea, but a bit more of a compromise for people who would say being able to switch is too OP or “if you can’t use a huge part of your kit with P3, lol just deal w/it.”

What about an option to turn your fighters into kamikaze pilots? Fly into air units and explode like a giant Scourge. Either with a longer cooldown than normal bombing, or with a 100-200 mineral cost to rebuild the jet at the platform. It’d be like a bunch of Russells from Independence Day!

If you wanted to make some conversation then why didn’t you mention it sooner? I missed it by the ways.

Conversation? What you quoted wasn’t even directed at you, so why would you assume that was an attempt at making conversation with you in particular? I only brought up my own suggestions because you keep saying I’m being “cynical” without offering anything of my own, which I have, several times.

@Dehakaburger-3510

There are people who tries to explain the solution in great details like Rickrumble and FearrWhalins, you just simply retorting the above quote and not contributing in details just makes you in bad position.

Also, what “solution” do you keep talking about? That’s the second time you’ve used that word. A solution to what? P3 being bad? A solution to fixing what I don’t like about your suggestion? I explained, in detail, why I wasn’t a fan of it, and I’ve given two of my own both here and on other threads. Do I have to offer something constructive about yours to improve it? Why would I workshop an idea I don’t see as viable in this instance? What else are you expecting me to explain to count as a “solution?”

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

Conversation? What you quoted wasn’t even directed at you, so why would you assume that was an attempt at making conversation with you in particular? I only brought up my own suggestions because you keep saying I’m being “cynical” without offering anything of my own, which I have, several times.

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

At least mag mines and calldowns can hit air units.

So this is all the feedback you can offer me?
The reason why I mentioned your feedback to “Kaa” is to give a benefit of a doubt you wanted to offer me than just that paltry feedback. But no, That short sentence is everything you can spare saved for following cynicism.

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

Obviously you would think your own suggestion is really great, or you wouldn’t be suggesting it. That goes without saying.

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

Dude, seriously, this reaction is so ridiculously out of proportion considering how aggressively people have responded to your ideas in the past.

What is ridiculous is that you are writing this unnecessarily long article to desperately justify your own argument above.
So in short you are defending this sentence as “innocent” feedback but in truth you are just spouting without considering what other people might think of it.

I’m also going to keep this short. If you can’t understand or admit that this…

@Fiddlefaddle-1674

Obviously you would think your own suggestion is really great, or you wouldn’t be suggesting it. That goes without saying.

… Could be taken insinuating for some people, then this talk is over. I am here to contribute to the thread not to deal with you.
Learn how to make proper feedback or have conversation.

[dasvik-2486]

You can add Mengsk P1 on the list.

I donno, maybe my playstyle doesn’t fit the prestige, but I see it as very questionable benefits traded for a very powerful calldown. And it’s currently bugged too, troopers inside ESOs don’t provide imperial mandate, so there’s that too.

[KrikkitOne-1424]

For both of those level3s some of the issue is the same

1. only benefit is cap removed
2. penalty is cost increased

The big difference is
UEs are all purpose, but an additional penalty (1/2 biomass effectiveness) is also present [which hurts his nonUEs]

Strike Fighters are limited, but there is no effect on non Strike fighter HH.

So
For Abathur P3, decrease the cost slightly (because the expensive UEs are already incentivized by the biomass bonus penalty)… maybe cap the late game bonus by a max supply cut to 100, maybe make the UE a little more self sufficient by giving them bonus regeneration (although mend does that fairly well with average of 5 dps healed)

For HH P3, make Strike fighters better (say do 75 damage to air units in area… so people who like the Strike fighters can truly go mass strike fighters)

[Bogdanov89-2777]

Worst certainly is H&H prestige 3 (bombing platform).
Its literally worse than the default H&H at the feature its supposed to improve.

[Fiddlefaddle-1674]

@Dehakaburger-3510

So this is all the feedback you can offer me?
The reason why I mentioned your feedback to “Kaa” is to give a benefit of a doubt you wanted to offer me than just that paltry feedback. But no, That short sentence is everything you can spare saved for following cynicism.

Do you even know what you’re arguing about? No, that isn’t all the feedback I gave you, so stop cherry-picking on a forum where it can clearly be seen. The mag mines thing was my initial comment on it. You posted back at me, and then I elaborated further. Like, what more do you want a far as feedback goes that would be satisfactory to you and not be considered “paltry?” An essay? A methodical breakdown?

@Dehakaburger-3510

What is ridiculous is that you are writing this unnecessarily long article to desperately justify your own argument above.

Unnecessarily long, huh? Pretty sure you’re the one who opened this can of worms of quote snippets and long-windedness, buddy. You want in-depth explanations on one hand, but call them “unnecessarily long” on the other? Cool, makes sense.

@Dehakaburger-3510

Learn how to make proper feedback or have conversation.

Learn how to not get bent out of shape over a nothing comment. This is literally the first time your feathers have been rustled by me and you’re treating it like some grand offense to your dignity. If I had used the same comment while praising your idea, you probably would have been just peachy with it.

[Demon-1741]

It’s not bugged for me, and it’s extremely powerful because you can keep an entire screen perma feared and they take 100% more damage on top of the dot. It takes a bit to get used to if you don’t usually use EsO but if you watch a replay with a Mengsk pro using it you’ll probably be impressed.

[Dehakaburger-3510]

@KrikkitOne-1424

For Abathur P3, decrease the cost slightly (because the expensive UEs are already incentivized by the biomass bonus penalty)… maybe cap the late game bonus by a max supply cut to 100, maybe make the UE a little more self sufficient by giving them bonus regeneration (although mend does that fairly well with average of 5 dps healed)

I agreed with your 100 supply proposal before but still, I’m not sure about Health regen (on account it might turn too OP).
But then again Tyrannozors have it, so maybe they can have it?

@KrikkitOne-1424

For HH P3, make Strike fighters better (say do 75 damage to air units in area… so people who like the Strike fighters can truly go mass strike fighters)

By keeping the same 200/200 cost?
IMO Striker Fighters are mostly for Anti Ground attacks, making them all-rounder will render them extremely versatile, maybe overly.