This screenshot tells the whole story

Blue had 9 bases.
Red only ever had 1 mining but ultimately mined 7.

The design of the game is so screwed up that you can be in complete control of the game and the opponent can still slow turtle from 1 mining base and win. Zerg has such an extreme inability to end games, even when massively ahead, that it even happens in ZvZ.

Lings and spine crawlers VS hydras and lurkers


Of course the lings and spines should be victorious [for the simple fact that it had and lost more supply].

No actually it was mass mutas into ultralisk viper. Followed by a thousand spores and spines with a cloud of brood viper overtop putting pressure on the red’s final base. Red won. Blue had probably 50 spores and spines and was maxed on brood viper. Red was making queen viper lurker because the queens were the only thing he could afford. Lurkers could push into that spine forest while the broods couldn’t push into the queens without being abducted. Vipers abducting vipers favored the red thanks to transfuses. Lurkers are much more micro-able than broods. Blue burnt through the whole map and red survived with 1 base not completely mined and it was enough to make that massive army you see in the screenshot.

SC2 is all about turtling and taking efficient trades. If you turtle, you will never lose. SC2 kills the first person to attack and that is VERY bad game design.

Have you ever even heard of TVP? Terran would have a 0% win rate if that were true.

Meanwhile Maru smashes late game protoss with mass bcs while he hides behind a bazillion tanks and planetary fortresses. SC2 needs a redesign with less emphasis on turtling.

1 Like

Avilo would be the ultimate Bonjwa if turtling was efficient.


Nah the efficiency of turtling is the only reason he isn’t gold league.

1 Like

You forgot to hide the clock.

Maybe that’s because the clock is the point of this thread.

The image you wanted us to see had no muta/ultralisk/viper, but ling, spines, hydras, and lurkers.

Post the replay next time – for science.


If you want mirror matchups to be fun, try WarCarft 3 again, man orc vs orc is so much fun to play and watch, at least for me.

In SC2 I like tvt, and sometimes pvp to watch and play, but not every game. Zvz is by far the most boring and most predictable match up.

between the insane mechanical requirements, and the length of time the games can go on, ZvZ seems brutal

No wonder, a few days ago reynor was talking about off racing as Terran against zerg opponents

Blue mined 106,150 resources. Red mined 72,509. That’s a difference of 33,641 or 46% more resources for Blue. Blue lost. At the final base, Blue had about 100 spores/spines AND a maxed cloud of brood viper camping THE HIGHGROUND overtop of the base. This screenshot is after it had been cleared out slowly by a lurker push. Zerg has a tremendously terrible ability to end games even when massively ahead.

1 Like

With lurkers, zvz becomes TvT, you can’t do anything with lurkers on the map so everything is about moving all the time trying to avoid the lurkers and reaching a safe ground.

Looks like Blue doesn’t know how to play zvz and just kept throwing waves of units at red. Blue should have just gone lurker as well barricade red it and use vipers to pick away at him. That’s how you win. You use abduct and blinding clouds

I’ve never seen a race become so destroyed as Zerg is over the last few

It’s pure revenge balancing and pandering

Terran players aren’t stuck on tanks for an hour though. They get access to game ending BC raven Viking comps

Unlike what you see in batz example the Terran player who mines more, holds more ground, and transitions out of siege based comps into offensive sky Terran first wins.

after attempting to bait with TvZ posts, batz has moved on to complaining about a ZvZ matchup.

Terrans have the ability to end the game in TvT although it can go longer. Doom drops, base trades, or even just choking their opponent out with tanks or liberator harass doing economic damage.

ZvZ is very different. 99% of zerg’s fighting units are ground units and lurkers shred those to an extreme. Zerg doesn’t have an ability to bypass terrain. Don’t point out the nydus, because it doesn’t work. It’s way to easy too shut down. This means a Zerg can camp a ton of lurkers at a couple choke points and he is basically unbreakable using all units except air units which aren’t affected by lurkers. That’s where the viper comes in. Zerg can make corruptors (worthless) mutas (shredded by parasitic bomb) and broods (abducted).

Zerg is a ground-based race (which is its biggest strategic weakness) and that’s a problem when lurkers make it impossible to attack with ground units.

A similar problem exists in TvZ. Terran has insanely powerful ground-control units, and all of zerg’s fighting units (worth making) are ground based. It makes it pretty much impossible to end a game vs a terran in a timely fashion.

1 Like

zerg is ground based army which is why they have the best AA(corruptors) compared to vikings and phoenix

KEKW this dude