There is nothing more frustrating than having a Proxy Oracle hit your mineral line before you can even get a Cyclone out. Part of the problem is Chrono Boost being a dumb mechanic which makes it near impossible to balance the game properly in the early game, but another problem is that it just takes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy tooooooooooooooo long to get Tier 2 units out for Terran due to the add-on mechanics. Sure you can try and speed things along a little bit by using your barracks to build add-ons but it is really cumbersome to lift buildings and switch them around to the point you don’t save yourself much time with the tech-lab which is what you need to get cyclones out.
Factories should also cost something like 125/75 considering you almost never build them without a reactor or tech-lab which adds another 25 or 50 gas to their total cost. This is a lot of gas early on whereas Protoss needs just one Oracle to win the game. In TvT Liberators can do the same thing if they are rushed fast enough with the most annoying thing being a build with a reactored starport building dual liberators. Not unbeatable by any stretch of the means, especially since they arrive a bit later than a proxied and chrono boosted Oracle.
The thing here is that due to the nature of the “new economy” and the very large maps, there are really no viable marine/tank timing pushes anymore for Terran which is what originally got the Stalker build time reduced significantly out of gateways several patches ago. All this did was make proxy gateway stalker pressure even more absurd and for some crazy reason Blizzard thought it was a great idea to make zealots and stalkers build faster than marines which might be the dumbest idea in the history of SC2 that forces Terran to always build a bunker at their ramp, lest they lose in the first 3 minutes to proxy gateway rushes.
Yeah just one oracle. Just one oracle. Only 150 minerals and building time for a gate, then 150 and building time for a core, only 150/150 minerals/gas and building time for a stargate and then only 150/150 minerals/gas and building time for an oracle.
Only just that to outright win vs someone who doesnt scout. SO UNFAIR!!!one!eleven!
Your reaper scout should have seen something fishy.
The speed at which Protoss can pump out an Oracle (safely) is far sooner than say a Terran can pump out a Banshee or a Zerg can pump out 5 or 6 mutalisks. An Oracle charged with energy recharge from a Nexus can pretty much take out more than half of your mineral line before the handful of your marines guarding your ramp can do anything. Remember, when this happens you generally get attacked from two sides and marines are very slow without stim and easy to pick off for fast air units. This is one reason so many Protoss players are abusing Void Rays against Terran now because while marines are supposed to be a soft counter to Void Rays, the fact of the matter is that without stim you can use the superior range of void rays combined with good micro to pick off marines one by one and only take shield damage.
Again if Chrono Boost was removed and the Gateway production buff was nerfed or eliminated then none of this would be a problem because these mechanics allow Protoss to have their cake while they eat it too. In theory, you should be able to attack Protoss with reapers to punish a greedy or super fast teching Protoss but blocking Reaper cliffs with buildings is very easy and Reapers both build too slow and harm your economy too much early on because you hurt yourself more by attacking with reapers since you have less minerals which you need to build Orbitals just to keep up with the broken mechanics of Zerg and Protoss.
All that Terran faces in the early to mid-game is abuse while the Protoss player (and sometimes Zerg) get map control and can mass expand with impunity. Also, scouting is EZPZ for Zerg and Protoss while Terran has no viable scouting options other than burning scans early on which implies being forced to put your early SCV’s on just minerals in order to get 2 or three CC’s with Orbitals and even then burning even one scan puts you behind.
The game is extremely unbalanced right now and many Terran players who have been screaming this at the top of their lungs have left the game permanently. Cheaper and faster building Terran buildings (especially with gas) would only negate abusive cheese while not really giving Terran any ability to really be abusive at the same time like the case is with all of the Gateway changes intended to better allow Protoss to deal with early Roach and marine/tank push all-ins which has had the side effect of making one gate Chrono Boost builds too viable since it allows you to save so many minerals from not having to build gateways which allows you to easily either tech really fast to Stargate units or else just build 3-4 more Nexuses and the probes to back them before the Terran can mount any realistic counter besides Banshees which take a very long time to get and are slowed down a lot by Stalker pressure at your front door from the one gate Chrono Boost production meta.
300 Minerals CC yet Terran is still behind if Toss and Terran macro, And Protoss now saves a fortune on less structures and requires less APM because they can just que units and spam them across the map with insane production times (almost double Terran on make units Stalker 16seconds vs 30 second for a Marauder.
That means a 2 gateway Protoss is competing with a 4 rax Terran.
Not to mention no even having to use warp gate anymore which makes Protoss macro even easier.
Your sleeping on the Protoss production rate its stronger than warpgate was, its just insane now.
Also Protoss can hold 2 base allins much easier than before due to the insane production rate.
That is true. The gateway change is especially good for people how want to macro since its now much easier to survive. Prior to that patch protoss was too fragile which was especially noticeable in pvp since it was a cheesefest.
The point 300 CC is great lategame you can spam more orbitals sac SCVS and have a bigger army sure, its mainly effective aginst Zerg because you dont want to be getting into the lategame vs Protoss.
Right now i have played Protoss for 4 days and i have a 70% winrate in PVT which is my best MU.
I find they are just trying to Macro more and they get run over by my stronger army, the scary Terrans are the 2 base allin timing attacks but it feels like thats all they have vs P.
Cheese and timing attacks or they are dead.
I love the new Protoss because i hated warpgate, Protoss actually had some of the hardest macro mechanics because you need to move screen to warpin so it makes it harder to multi task.
Now you dont even need warpgate and its easier than ever.
Also way less structures needed just makes the macro even easier too.
Yes I would add the 300 CC definitely helps keeping you in the game early on but the 300 CC really only matters for marine spammers in TvT as you almost always have to build Planetary Fortresses at your 4th and 5th expansion against Protoss and Zerg. Also, for your third you often need a Planetary if you play a mech style rather than simply turtling with marine/tank until you get all of your upgrades, and then to make use of infantry you have to be really good at dodging banelings and psi-storm the rest of the game. Later in the game Orbitals are used less for mules and more for scan and sometimes repair.
The point is that Protoss and Zerg can max out much faster than Terran and then get favorable trades with A-move armies by having twice the units and then remaxing everything pretty fast as the Terran player is trying to get back on their feet. If a terran invests in tech or units to harass expansions and workers, they put themselves behind because the zerg or Protoss player can just replace those workers so easily and fast, if the Protoss or Zerg players gets enough hatcheries or nexuses early on. If you only have two Nexuses then losing 10 probes is huge, but if you have 5 nexuses, those probes can for all intents and purposes be replaced instantly.
I feel like the game feels more balanced than before with ZVP being Zerg favoured and TVP still being Toss favoured, and ZVT is probably Terran favoured at the highest level.
The problem with Zerg is now they are like Protoss used to be , they are the easiest race to get good results with. Easiest Micro and Macro imo and you can win games spamming 1 unit.
While at the top level P and T are still better, look at top 10 GM now all T and P no Zergs , but lower down at low GM and High masters TONS of Zergs.
The top GM’s should not be taken into consideration because the vast majority of them are drop hackers. It is extremely interesting Blizzard has not taken action on this issue because it is so easy to prove someone is using drop-hacks to get instant wins. Many of them camp the streams of actual top players and then add themselves to the queue right as the streamer enters the matchmaking service which has the effect of the streamer having to log onto an alt account and troll lower level players if they are going to play at all. The only stats that matter for high level play are tournaments and right now a lot of top players are boycotting 5.0.16 or else are moving onto other games entirely which is a shame.
Again. As i told you before. If you actually knew what the website called nephest is, you would see how wrong this statement is.
Ironically there are 6 zergs in top 10 masters+grandmasters. Because right now in gm you dont see serral. you dont see reynor. your dont see shin. you dont see lambo. you dont see elazer.
Why dont you see them in gm? Because they dont meet the requirements or leave league. common practise. But i know that you are resistant to facts. You rather believe your lies.
here is the link (there is a space “ “ before “com”, so you need to remove it):
I left the game a while ago because how busted Protoss was i just switched to Toss now its harder than Zerg to play but faceroll compared to Terran.
As Protoss you just need to defend and expand then you win, Oracle rush just wrecks Terran most games now im sitting at 65%+ winrate in TVP and im a 15 year Terran and newbie toss
Z > P - Zerg gets map control so they can expand much faster and drone up faster. There have been players like Hero who use early Oracles and Void Rays and light harassment with adepts to get around the brute force superiority of lings or roaches early on, but generally Zerg is stronger in this matchup by a considerable margin unless the Zerg is caught off guard by air harassment.
P > T - If the Protoss player abuses the runaway economy mechanic early in the game and then just prevents the Terran from keeping a third base. If the Protoss is too greedy, the Terran can secure a third and turtle out from there in a game of attrition. After warp gate research is done, keep Chrono Boosting out of one gate and use the saved minerals on nexuses while minimizing pylons. You don’t need to Chrono Boost probes if you have 3-4 expos. Normally this is a bad idea, but if you have map control you can play like a classic Zerg. Once you have a huge economy, you are going to keep throwing units while teching to a finishing move army the Terran can’t just beat with only infantry and some vikings (Skytoss usually).
Z > T - Same problem as with Protoss in that instead of the Chrono Boost and super fast gateway production, the Zerg will have map control and can power up on many hatcheries early on. This has always been the zerg mechanic but in 5.0.16 it is even more pronounced because Terran RELATIVELY falls so far behind early on because of the 8 worker start which is even more painful if you send out a scouting SCV.
On a sidenote, this oversight with Terran makes it seem not out of the realm of possibility they are killing their own game as questionable decisions by Microsoft have also recently killed the Halo franchise. Microsoft is a monopoly and can have their stock price propped up at any time by “investors” who get unlimited capital from the Federal Reserve so they don’t actually have to make decisions based upon fiduciary responsibility anymore but rather the agenda of the shareholders who get unlimited money from the money printing at the Federal Reserve. If this makes no sense to you, then you have to do some research on how our financial system (America’s at least and the home of Blizzard/Activision/Microsoft) has been run since 1913. This is the same reason Hollywood puts out woke movies nobody likes and in some cases is still given the cash to buy faux seats at movie theaters to keep the illusion alive. You could say there are a lot of agendas at play, but forcing objectionable content onto your customers that they hate and is intended to brainwash or demoralize them is definitely not an agenda of profitability.
Yes it is very hard to stop and unless you are map hacking, you can’t just build 2 turrets in the right spot in your mineral line super fast because then you will have no units and if they go blink stalkers instead, those show up almost as fast. The thing is you can tech to blink stalkers while massing stalkers like crazy out of just one or two gateways and blink into their main even faster than the good old 4 gate blink 95% of the time days. It just feels so dumb seeing how many Tier 1 units Protoss can get in such a short period of time, due in part because Terran has to invest so much money into production buildings and Protoss just needs one or two gateways to do everything. For a Terran to get into a Protoss’ base they need a starport while Protoss just needs Blink research and one Sentry to create a Hallucination. Even then you get hit so fast that the Protoss can just walk up your ramp and blink in anyways before you have enough units to do anything about it (you might have one tank). That is the crux of the problem in PvT in that there are about a half dozen cheeses Protoss can throw at you which you are blind to and about the only thing Protoss has to worry about are Banshees and if you go straight Banshees you risk dying to Stalkers blinking into your base before cloak is finished (which takes a long time).
I feel the same but as Terran vs Protoss Mech timing attacks or widowmine + tanks + cyclone into SkyTerran is more viable than ever before ive had alot of success with it and on ladder a few Terrans have beaten me with it also.
A Terran lategame army of mass widowmines + thors + BCs can even beat skytoss you should try it ive had alot of success with it.
Right now as Protoss my worst winrate is PVZ at 50% , i find the fast stargate less effective and i just try to hold onto my 3rd base with around 4 shield batterys and a very high immortal count early on. Lurkers and mass hydra timing attacks is a big problem but im getting better at holding it.
I have just realized Terran even with 300cc change has massive weaknesses and i hate the TVP matchup because now they can run us over without even having to warp in.
Im amoving Terrans lategame while queuing units spammed across the map and macroing the rest of my bases same time.
While the Terran is just forced to micro and stutter step the bio ball just to survive the fight.