Swann Strategies

Co-op Missions Discussion
1

I’ve been playing the commanders in the order they are listed on the main Co-op screen, and I’ve been able to play them all without issue on Brutal… until now.

I’ve seen the TL guide on Swann, where you fly tanks around in hercs and back them up with goliaths and science vessels. And as the guide states, it’s rather micro intensive, which on the higher difficulties I’m finding difficult to pull off fast enough to be useful during engagements. Because of it, I bumble around on Hard, sometimes doing ok (but usually not), so I don’t even want to try that TL strat on Brutal and beyond.

So my question is, how are people around here playing Swann? What’s working for Hard and Brutal out there?

2

On what map and what enemy composition?

3

Since you know the guide, I’ll just complement with this:

When in doubt, flaming betties.

4

mass Goliath is the easiest strat for Swann and it can beat any brutal composition. Maybe not the best for some mutations where you might want to use counter units effectively, but for a regular brutal game goliaths are a perfect go-to unit.

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5

Tank/herc is a very strong strategy, but it has to be used with the correct expectations. Unless your micro is really good and practiced, it’s going to be hard to repeal large waves, for instance. It’s also ground-only, obviously.

I think it’s helpful to think of the tank/herc as a tactical missile. Move in strategically, drop the tanks at a safe distance, give them a volley or two, then scoop up and reposition. It’s not a brute-force tactic, and if you’re trying to clear something, it takes time. It’s also helpful to have a couple of science vessels on follow. They will keep your herc topped off.

When it comes to big pushes, use the ARES bots. They are extremely tanky, and create a great pocket for the tanks to sit in. Or wait for the ally to attack then use the tank/herc to “snipe.”

Mechanically, make a control group with the tanks. When they drop, immediately select the tanks using the group number. When they’re ready to be picked up (almost immediately in most cases), right click on the herc. There are lots of ways to get fancy with this (that I don’t use cause I also suck at micro) but this is an extremely straight forward way that works.

Tank/herc tends to lack the oomph needed for late game work by themselves, so unless you want to juggle lots of hercs, keep the tanks in their tactical role and then add other units to form the bulk of the army.

Goliath/vessel is probably the standard late game Swann army. Upgraded goliaths are extremely potent against air, and with the tanks wasting ground forces it’s very strong (albiet micro intensive). Mix in Thors if you want more anti-ground or to make the army more durable. Just make sure to use defensive matrix because the Thors are too expensive to lose.

Don’t forget about Wraiths either. They’re too fragile to take an army out of, but they make excellent support units/firefighters.

My suggestions for getting Swann to click though is 1) make sure you hit your early build order. Swann using turrets can expand pretty fast, and he needs a strong econ with lots of upgrades. 2) use the Bots early and often. They can fill a lot of space, especially with mastery upgrades, and carry you on most maps until other units are made.

6

I think a lot of Swann strategy is about being able to survive the early game in good shape, any army takes a while to get going but for all maps just good use of calldowns and turrets can carry you for a long while, or complete the whole map is you know how to do turrets correctly, but even if you don’t want to just go mass turrets, making turrets in the early game is vital to not depend on the ally.

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7

Defensive matrix herc, jump it into the enemy, pulse cannon, unload herc

Massing Wraiths to snipe objectives on DoN and RK.

About a 50/50 split in Power set 3 instead of all gas because I like drill call-downs sooner.

My Swann micro still needs a lot of work, so I’ll only juggle herc/tank drops if I’m slow pushing into an encampment. Else I add firebats to tank when A-moving.

8

Good info so far. I really appreciate it!

I’m not getting too specific yet. I typically play random map, and just adapt slightly when the composition becomes known.

9

General advice would be to make units, this works for any map and enemy comp, but doesn’t give you any new information.

It’s not possible to give a good advice without specifics, there are map specific builds and timings etc.

P.S. there was a post by Mortis not long ago about playing Swann, you can check it out for more tips.

10

Make sure to upgrade the laser drill

11

For minimal micro but still being able to have an effective army you can try my Swann army composition.

12-20 Hellbats
8 Science Vessels
0-8 Thors
Max rest on Goliaths

The only thing that you really need to micro in this composition are the Science Vessel’s Defense Matrix and Thor barrage abilities as well as the Goliath cluster when pushing (akin to marine micro) to maximize damage.

12

I only use tanks for defensive maps.

For attacking maps, tanks require way to much micro and slows you down as well. For these maps mass goliaths + self heal upgrade + science vessels, means you can a-move most battles

13

If you don’t have the micro to pull off Herc play well, the best and easiest way to play him is to just mass Goliaths with Science Vessels. You can use Tanks or Thors without Hercs too depending on the unit comp or map, but a core army of upgraded Goliaths (the upgrades are really important) and Science Vessels with Defense Matrix is a very strong a-move army that will carry you through just about anything on Brutal difficulty.

The trick with Swann is getting his macro down. Expanding fast (TL’s guide is spot on for this), getting your upgrades going on time and most importantly not getting supply blocked for long periods of time.

If you can get your macro down solid, a-moving Goliaths with Science Vessels solves just about all your problems.

14

Something that what helped me get the HERC/Tank figured out is to go Wraiths. Hotkey your starports, set the rally on the HERC, then focus on your herc/tank combo. This will allow you to keep an army going, keep it close, and compliments the each other well.

As someone else has said, have your HERC and tanks on the same control group. That way when you drop, you can select ALL of your tanks and HERC, right click on the HERC, move, drop, repeat. Most people like to consider the HERC/tank combo as a hero unit for Swann.

And if all else fails, you can always do a different comp. The new barrage on Thors can delete entire attack waves. You can aggressively push with turrets by having a HERC loaded up with some SCV’s ready to make a firebase anywhere. Swann has a lot of tools. Might help you play around with some of them in the meantime.

15

From what I had witnessed, mass wraith is the strongest strategy of swan (in terms of damage they can deal, combined with mobility) but you need skill to snipe detectors. You can also get some hellbats or static defense to go with them.

16

I also use Tanks only on defensive maps. Tried doing Herc/Tank on attacking maps - too difficult and underperforming compared to other options on my skill level.
My strategies for Swann - almost never fails on Brutal and not too much micro intensive.
Masteries - 0/30, 0/30, 20/10.
Drop Vespen drones ASAP.
If expansion is blocked by rocks - clear with Billies early, If blocked by enemies - robot drop, build second CC with 8-10 workers.
If first wave earlier than 4:00 and you’re not sure ally can def - 1 Billy and 1 Betty for def (later can salvage).
Upgrade Laser Drill ASAP.
Open with Hellbats, if enemy is mass air - add mass Goliaths, if enemy mass ground - add Thors and more Hellbats (Thor’s ability deals insane AOE damage on ground, so use it against groups of enemies). If mixed - adjust accordingly (Hellbats - super tanky and effective againt groups of light ground, Goliaths - effective against armored air, Thors - effective against ground and groups of light air).
Production - 3 Factories, 1 Starport and 2 Armories for upgrades.
8-10 Science Vessels for heal. Defensive Matrixes - very good for saving units on front line and key units of ally (e. g. heroes). Irradiate - generally not worth it because deals damage too slow, but if there’s free energy and enemy is Zerg it won’t hurt to throw it here and there.
Tactics - simple F2 - A - move plus using abilities of Science Vessels and ocasionally Thors.
Swann’s army is not very quick, so trying to save top-panel for emergencies.
On Dead of Night mostly only def with turrets and Tanks so ally can freely clear map and do not worry about base.
Miner Evacuation - the only map where I use two Hercs with Tanks but I drop them only near the ships, so not very difficult. Also adding Goliaths for antiair and Hellbats for tanking.
Temple - depends on enemy comp and ally’s reliability - can go Turret/Tank or regular army.

17

My “go to” builds for Swann are:

Fighting first wave, make Billy Blasters, with Flaming Betty in front. Rapid build your Factory, and grab 2 to 4 SCVs to build the towers if they’re going to be knocking on your door soon.

Get gas drone, upgrade DLD (Drakken Laser Drill) (I have 15/15 split of masteries).

Then make mass Gollies + Tanks. Make all upgrades for those. Micro tanks into siege mode to take down towers from a safe distance, and soften up the ground forces of incoming waves.

Later on, make Starports and get a few Sci-Vessels

ARES Warbots to help push, tank, and support throughout.

18

Easiest way to learn is to see youtube videos on how people played swann on brutal.
Also check out starcraft2coop website for a more updated guide.
Swann can have a very early expansion on most maps and that is a crucial thing to use to max on mineral income (swann is mineral starved).

About that whole hercules+siege tank strat… its very powerful but honestly you dont need it for regular brutal.
If you are finding it hard to micro herc+siege then just play a standard army and once that is all easy then try the herc+siege (but frankly you dont need it at all).

19

i rarely play swann either. It is a really squishy commander sometimes.

Like a few mentioned, the best thing to max out on is goliaths with a few sci-vessels. Make the sci-vessels early on and first upgrade is the barrier. Its super effective early on and can safe a unit from a lock-on mine from ravens or so if youre fast enough.
If you need something super early either build turrets and salvage them or just go with hellbats. Ive seen skilled swann players with a bunch of hellbats and 2 sci-vessels outperform any threat with ease while transitioning into goliaths/tank+hercs.