Starcraft's story was bad even BEFORE SC2

Do we know what James Phinney’s actual role in the lore was? I mean in detail, what parts he actually worked on and developed over Metzen? In the manual, he’s credited for Story and Script after Metzen.

It’s actually quite common, and in my opinion, oft overblown.

  • Anything by Blizzard Entertainment
  • Mass Effect
  • Mortal Kombat

These are all franchises, just off the top of my head, who’s story is constantly mocked by it’s own fan base.

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Of late, Borderlands as well. Basically anything where the story is more than a complete afterthought gets it these days.

Honestly, a lot of it seems like clickbait to me. I saw one article recently that tried to convince everybody having fun with the new Animal Crossing that they were having badwrongfun if they were enjoying it.

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*laughs in youngling

I think most of the manual was his. Don’t know where I heard that from. :man_shrugging:

Mass Effect has amazing reviews and is critically acclaimed. Plus, the story is the point of the game unlike with SC2. The people that hated the ending the most did so because they loved the rest of the franchise so much. Kind of a game of thrones situation there, but not really because the extended cut fixed most of the problems with the ending. Other than that, virtually everyone agrees that it’s solid. I see no evidence of the same level of mockery that SC2 has.

*laughs in the literal charred bodies of Owen and Beru being shown on screen and just glossed over.

Dark things happen sometimes. But that doesn’t make Star Wars particularly dark.

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The UED are explicitly supposed to be next level terrible. I know there is some narrative disconnect there because Dugaulle and Stukov are outwardly pretty agreeable people and the UED doesn’t do anything exceptionally evil in its campaign, but the background lore makes it pretty clear they are the absolute worst, which is why Fenix And Raynor feel like they have to work with Mengsk and Kerrigan.

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This a double post but I just gotta say. “Video game story.” Is just a massive cop out. Games like the last of us, Witcher, Fallen Order (and I gotta plug this because it’s just so damn good.) FFVIIR are all lauded for their storytelling. The medium shouldn’t be a cover for bad writing, it’s not the mediums fault.

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Well, in some cases it is. The PC definitionally needs to be central to the story at all times, and you obviously cant jump around genres without screwing the actual game, so you frequently end up with games like Skyrim or Borderlands, where everybody besides the player is useless, or like StarCraft where the need to give the player something to actually do supersedes the concerns of what would make a better story.

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Just finished Wild Hunt in Witcher 3. Can’t wait to tackle the expansions. I literally want to go and talk to every random villager in each of their huts.

That excuse just starts to sound so hollow when you play custom campaigns that literally don’t suffer from this at all because the author planned the story with a shred of foresight.

I have literally never played a custom campaign that could not have been improved dramatically by removing the need for the character’s decisions to result in more missions.

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That’s one of the greatest things about that game. The sidequests and Witcher contracts are all so lovingly crafted and really immerse you in the game world.

A perfect example of my above point, CDPR didn’t throw up their arms and go “RPG side quests always suck.”. They found a way to make side quests awesome.

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I am just gonna say that Witcher 1 is underrated as hell. Also, that while the story in 2 seems really cool…

The gameplay makes me suffer.

And yeah, I am not touching BL3 with a 4 feet stick.

a christian analogy? this is no more like this batman: “the difference between you and me is that we both saw the abyss BUT You blinked” An infinite cycle kerrigan repeats the path of Amon but the nuances give a different outcome, someone who does not believe in the cycle maintains it the cycle continues

yes the argument this is from children, why it does not embrace drama and focuses on death at every moment, come on, the adventure story revenge or epic, is not just for children

if it is not sinister or sandy it is very low quality,let’s enter the cube “not ultra serious is of poor quality” or “does not connect with me does not touch the topics that I like must be bad”

you are not a new boy to know that this is a fallacy ADpopullum not even well-grounded

it is actually a common phenomenon when a franchise decides to move away from the original formula immortalized in southpark
“Member Berries_”, what we grew up with is better. new sucks,

fans about Star Wars prequel: why is there politics in Star War? midiclorian? science where’s space magic? Jarja why has a stupid in the galaxy is not realistic
don’t get me wrong i don’t prefer soft and colorful environments i love rock, gothic, punk, culture, scratches on armor, and i enjoy that desolate alien and caustrophobic environment. the point is that you are not willing to accept that the universe of starcraft universe is bigger than a narrative style, there is room for romance(I really don’t understand the horror of this, it gives a vibe to children grimacing or “God feelings!”), humor (hope a delusional madman overshadows the rest of the universe) and lovercraftnian horror, revenge, corporate dramas , but the reduction of SC2 is derived more from your real science fiction idea “hard science fiction” for others and materialistic conception of the universe, really the idea of ​​the Clarktech is based on human limitation if it was great to observe aliens scientific philosopher on the concept of perfection and expect to see the result of the actions but for some reason it is wrong to use xenalgas the technological analogue for the protoss of what the protoss are for us, and the door beyond what is possible with our knowledge and rise an experiment fortuitous to a element of the universal order, pangenesis

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I am pretty sure Phlynch was not a 5 year old.

And people… stop acting like stuff for kids has to be dumb, immature and bright-coloured.

Avatar TLA (the series obviously) is easily one of the most shining examples of this as this series aimed for kids is tackling things like war propaganda, a vicious cycle of violence, racism or the importance of standing up to the oppressors instead of collaborating.

And despite the fact that creators were taking great measures to avoid on-screen deaths… It’s still a show with genocide as the base of its premise. And it’s a world where among the 15 most powerful individuals in the world, there are at least 5 children (Aang, Azula, Toph, Katara, Zuko). Kids fighting in a 100 year long world-scale genocidal conflict.

Yaaay pretty colors and goofy looking animal hybrids.

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^In my experience, this is true. There’s no middle ground at all anymore. Either something is the second coming of Christ, or it’s a complete steaming pile of excrement. Period.

There was actually a discussion about this on testyourmight recently, as Mortal Kombat 11 gets heavy flack from it’s own community more than anyone else. That’s for the story, the gameplay, the character and costume design, etc.

Fair enough. if true, that’s some damn fine work he did.

Absolutely correct, it’s critically acclaimed and absolutely should be; it’s overall storytelling is fantastic!

After the ending was first seen though, it seems everyone changed their opinion to “it’s crap because none of it matter,” and not just hate for the ending, but hate for the entire franchise kicked off big time. There was also heavy criticism for the shift in Mass Effect 3 away from the points the previous two games were building for the motivation for the Reapers. The lead writer for the first games, who did not do the third, stated things were indeed changed as BioWare feared the original story idea would be seen as too environmental friendly and they didn’t want that backlash, so they went with the more conservative and generic machines wipe out organics because machines route.

I’m sure it won’t shock you either to learn I personally had no issue with the original ending, though I do prefer the extended ending.

Just to chime in, I got to talk with Metzen two BlizzCons ago very briefly, the one big point we did talk about was the manual was almost exclusively his work and a bit of writing he still loved. This makes sense since earlier games like WCII and Diablo Metzen was the one who wrote the greater world of those games, which the manuals served as the ground floor of.

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Also for some misconceptions on the UED/UPL, here’s the sources for why they certainly wouldn’t ally with the protoss:

The expeditionary force, led by the brilliant Admiral Gerard DuGalle, had a secondary objective as well. Admiral DuGalle was ordered to take control of the Zerg Broods and use them to pacify Protoss activity in the Sector.

As for fascism, they don’t directly call them such in the game, but they do in the manual, albeit for the old UPL:

The UPL was founded upon the basis of‘ enlightened socialism’, but often resorted to harsh, fascist police actions to maintain the public order.

Also the entire reason the terrans in the sector are there is they were lab experiments spared from the chopping block from their Project Purification. Given the UPL only changed to the UED in the past few months, and their final cinematic is a direct Starship Troopers film reference they’ve even gone out and admitted (a film where those propaganda pieces are used to exemplify an explicitly fascist government), and we see Kerrigan use worlds like “clamp down on this sector and enslave us all,” it’s easy to assume they’re still fascist.

It’s interesting people consider the fact DuGalle and Stukov weren’t cackling baby eating bad guys as a failing of the story, as that’s the reason I find the UED so compelling. Their goals are obviously not something of the good guys, and you see the subtle cracks of brutality in some of their actions and use of propaganda, but overall the two seem like regular people who just are here because they have a job to do.

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Kerrigan magnifies the threat for purposes of manipulation, although submission is danger , true interacting with the Zerg is more danger that with humans, although Kerrigan tries to project the idea that she can placate them, controlling to swarm, our friend

Oh certainly, but she only magnifies the threat that’s there. Had there not been a good amount of truth to it it wouldn’t really have worked on Jim. Plus by kicking down the door guns blazing on the Dominion they didn’t exactly do anything to discourage that perception (though it seemed to work enough to get the KMC to peacefully capitulate). Even Fenix can see the “UED grips the sector with an iron fist” during the campaign.

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