Annoying. Every game is lets sit back and D up and A-move then gg out. Is this how the game just is now?
depends on the matchup. Generally Protoss can defend their bases easily, but find it hard to expand without map control, Terran can play both to turtle or play greedy, but not both, you just need to scout what they are going for and punish or outexpand them. Zerg are a turtle race these days and will turtle in every matchup but zvz
Itās a pretty mixed bag but generally, no.
Zerg basically lose if they move out, theyāre a āsoak the army up then push outā reactionary race that has had their aggressive builds nerfed into nothingness.
Protoss can be stubborn about moving out but thatās mostly due to how insanely expensive their units are, how niche their roles are and how you need several different units to form a cohesive army in comparison with the relatively small 2-4 units that T and Z need to form a cohesive army.
Terran, outside of TvT donāt want to turtle because they have a very hard time producing true late game armies. It requires the slowest production in the game, several sets of upgrades AND frankly, Marines beat everything in the game except splash damage once you get enough of them.
So Terran just doesnāt really want to macro up, theyāre much better if you hit a gigantic allin. Bar TvT where itās tank lines for days or a double medivac tank drop allin.
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Queen walks say Hi.
Every second bloody gameā¦
In ZvT Roach all-ins and Muta play are also quite popular. Normally though Zerg just try to tech into either Lurkers or Ultras and do massive attack with them, not counting occasional counter ling-bane run-by.
If we are talking PvT usually it is Terran who is defending until they got Stim-Shield-Medivacs-+1 from Blink or number of other openings.
After that T can be agressive on the map (but even then you can be hit by WP any timeā¦). However at the same time you can do Colossus-Chargelot-Archon push youself which if what I prefer doing because getting 3 Colossus with Thermal Lance, Charge and couple of Archons is a MASSIVE power spike for us.
A lot of Protoss though play Phoenix-Colossus in which they harass and defend with Phoenixes, then deflect bio-push with Colossus then max out on Disruptors.
Interesting to see Mutaliskās mentioned. Are they still viable? Iāve watched some replays and youtube videos of Zerg vs T and P and NEVEr see mutas. Maybe in lower leagues were weird builds happen?
Pretty much as a Zerg player most games go like this (Diamond):
I do pretty standard build and scout. Opponent (donāt matter what they are) has walled in and built static defense everywhere. Terrans just plop PFās down once they take a 3rd and sit in their base all game. Protoss just Cannon up and make tonnes of static d and building so you canāt get in. Even vs Zerg, I keep facing ones who spore/crawler up.
I realize that this puts me at an advantage most of the time but for some weird reason I often end up losing because my opponent simply blind counters w/e I do. Terran that never scan, toss with no Obs and Z not even making Overseers to scout. But somehow, no matter what I try - They have it countered.
I admit, I get frustrated in some games and simply try to bust through and this costs me games. The opponent donāt even play the game and winās because I just gg out at this point because I donāt want to waste 20 minutes trying to break someoneās defense.
I know I have a lot of room for improvement but itās hard to improve when your opponent sits in their base all game and just slowly pushes out. You can kill their army but itās super hard to punish them for it.
Also in general the higher up you go on ladder, the more likely people are to take initiative on the map.
A very big yes.
Its pretty viable against any race with 2 base muta cheese or rather a bit delayed in zvp and zvt. you can hold nearly anything with ling bling in midgame and then you can go mutas. But in current meta hydras are just the much better deal, so most go ling bling hydra i would say. but that doesnt mean mutas arent viable.
My thoughts as a 4k offrace zerg.
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Tried it last night and won some games. Was able to punish a T who went fast Banshee/BC. The mutas + corruptors won the game for me as it allowed me to plant mutas over the production buildings so I stopped their production which meant the turtle didnāt work.
It amazing though how in 70% of my ZvT games, the Terran tries a quick BC into turtle. If the first BC does nothing, the T might as well GG out.
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believe it or not, that is standard for terran mech, a few hellions and a battlecruiser or banshee to harrass into a late game army of helbat, tank, thor. The idea is to conserve your resources and trade well because your movement is so limited so your expansion is limited.
It is very bad if they lose the BC, normally Terrans want to keep it alive so they can tie up queens while doing hellion runbys.
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what does this zerg turtle look like?
Iām thinking of Darkās spore/lurker stuff.
but in general i think there is a difference between playing defensively and playing turtle.
The game is TurtleCraft 2, where you spam out APM doing useless interactions that donāt actually progress the game state to any meaningful degree. Imagine if in chess they required you to move your knight back and forth from its starting position 1,000 times before you can make any real moves. Thatās basically the way SC2 is designed. The first 10 minutes of the game are totally irrelevant to progressing the game state except for the fact that you must do them because the game requires you do them before you can move on to doing things that progress the game.
Basically all it is is an endurance tax that says āanyone with endurance lower than X automatically loses the game for no other reasonā.
One of the things that really bugged me about this style of design is that it allows people to prolong the game in the hopes that your endurance (or patience) wears out. In fact itās the most common strategy that defines the meta at the pro/grandmaster level. They literally spam interactions at each other until one person gets bored, takes a risk to try to end the game a bit faster, and loses because the risk didnāt pay off.
In other words, the way to resolve the game is to avoid resolving the game / waiting for the other player to leave.
The way the game should be designed is that there are missed opportunities if you donāt take immediate action, e.g. you lose the game if you donāt try to resolve the game. Right now you win the game if you avoid trying to resolve the game, meaning there are no rewards for trying to progress the game state.
Iām not quite sure what you want.
youāre doing something, development/preparation. as in chess, there are threats.
do you have an example?
it reminds me of situation like pylon in the wall. 2 ways: just keep playing normally or all-in ling bane.
It really surprises me that people still play this stupid and inefficient buildā¦
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Zergās economy from HotS. The Terran had a very powerful midgame but if he didnāt get out there and beat the zerg up, heād be overrun by zergās economy. That would be an example of a missed opportunity. Basically you default to losing if you turtle. Right now the game defaults to winning if you turtle, with one caveat: the player that turtles the longest is the one to win, so the game is about spamming a bunch of meaningless interactions that are simply meant to wear your opponent down until he gives up and leaves the game, and you do this while turtling up at home.
The terran goes out with his first 2 medivacs, stims and stutter steps, picks off some banes, clears some creep, etc. AKA totally meaningless interactions. Zerglings are remade and creep is replaced and the game goes on for another 20 minutes. Basically you exchange medivac energy for queen energy and itās completely useless except that it wears your opponent down.
SC2 is an endurance game. There is almost no strategy to be found. The primary strategy of the game is to simply have more endurance and wear your opponent down. Itās like, congrats on having the right combination of fast & slow twitch muscle fibers.
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yep, aggro styles are deleted. sh!ts pretty obnoxious, makes otherwise irrelevant players relevant.
Well players didnāt like that the game could just end from a single tactical maneuver, which is synonymous with saying they wanted the game to go longer, have meaningless interactions, and to be endurance-focussed. Back then, the game could go longer, but only if both players were equally skilled in the strategic/tactical departments and were going blow-for-blow against one another. Those kinds of long games were the āscrappyā games that were chaotic and hard to predict. Itās moments like that where strategy and tactics would shine. Players like SoS were the kings. Nowadays APM spammers like Serral are the top players because the game is about A) being gifted by evolution RNG with endurance attributes and B) finding the strategies that maximize the endurance stresses of your opponent. Because endurance stresses go up as the game goes longer, due to having to manage more bases, the best strategy is just to turtle and prolong the game. Itās like, congratulations for being able to click fast and for a long time! This guy was able to click 30 seconds longer than the other guy, what an absolute GOAT!
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Bahahaha Queen walks havenāt been a realistic option since the massive Queen nerfs that happened years ago. Itās a gimmick strategy that relies on punching down a skill bracket or 3.
Terran typically all-in Protoss on 2 bases, they are the timing race. Itās Protossās job to typically hold the all-in and from there itās almost auto win.
Yes, Protoss can be aggressive by applying light pressure with Stalkers or fast Chargelots just like Terran can marine SCV allin. I donāt see your point. Every race can do funky stuff if they really want to.
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Donāt tell Dark about it. If its not Queen walk, than its Nydus. If its not Nydus than its Muta.
Are you talking about ladder or pro level?
If by ālight Blink pressureā you mean ākill 2 base Terran while you are taking your 3d with Blink timingā than you would be correct though I question you choice of wordsā¦
If you mean something else than watch how Skillous 2:0 Heromarine, or how MaxPax kills Buyn, Maru or Clem with ālight Blink pressureā.
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Bahahaha. Queen Walks. Nydus. 2018 called, they want their super nerfed strategies back mate 
Scraping wins off of people with out of date, non-meta builds happens at every level of play due to the surprise factor.
If a Terran loses to a 2 base blink timing, they did not scout and were caught unprepared. Marauders and tanks both hard counter the living hell out of Stalkers while Banshees and mines do respectably.
Even if they make it into the main base, stim marines can clean up if you have enough of them.
Also, no, a blink allin is an allinā¦itās not light pressure.
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Dark does that like in half of the games he plays. Quite successfully I must say.
Mate, are you been stuck in the military for the last couple years or what?
I am talking about the Standard of most Standard Protoss economy builds in PvT that can and often do kill Terran who is on 2 bases.
Like this build: [Spawning Tool: Zest's 2 gate blink](https://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/158251/#description-header) (people do sometimes insert Prism into it; MaxPax does similar but 3 Gates).
The whole bloody point is to hit BEFORE Stim is done. If Terran screws up you will cancel Stim and eviscerate him.
One mistake in tank positioning and Terran is dead. Stalkers just blink on top of it and tank is gone.
WM are outranged by Stalkers.
Bansheeā¦ just LOL. Show me replay of Banshees defending against Blink-Stalkers pressure.
Terran need to have his units very carefully positioned in order to deflect that. You can do it with tanks, you can do it with bunkers and mines. If you couldnāt than it would be OP lol.