Protoss players

I need your opinion, are any of the matchups fun for you guys?

As a protoss player that’s in and out of GM I find that I often find myself not enjoying the game as of the last couple patches, balance aside the game just doesn’t feel fun due to the dynamics of each matchup.

PvP is probably my favorite now that cheeses are not AS big, but I don’t enjoy the “rock paper scissors” feel of it.

PvZ is : Hurt zerg early or you lose late, just no diversity in the matchup what so ever which becomes frustrating

PvT is: probably the worst matchup in my opinion, it feels very volatile, one mistake on either side can be completely game ending. It’s just not a fun feeling, I feel like this is where the term “harasscraft” was coined (correct me if I’m wrong)

Point is, while the game may be balanced from a fundamental standpoint; the game just does not feel as strategic as it used to.

I’d like y’alls opinion to see if you guys feel the same as I do.


PvT i beaten 140 zerg gm after 30 games offrace and got 15 rank instantly from 50 rank masters terran, before mmr split, than after practicing terran 7 yeras. I telported 6 times back in one game and abuse ruptors… I can beat +500-600 terrans mmr above me and i have PvT 60% win rate. TvP 49%. You just a move chargelot blink, they are faster than stimed bio, there is no micro needed and than drop ht from prism. Or a move colossi phoenix, which has no counter, other than staying behind. You just kill terran with all ins, which are hard to scout, or you trade in mid game, because you get ahead in every aspect in the game from broken economy. I can play bad against 5100 terran with my 4500 tos offrace and still win. It feels i can do whatever i want, after holding first attack…


i have fun when i play protoss because i enjoy using zealots and sentries, but i think the splash damage isnt good for the game. turns it into spellcaster craft

i wouldnt enjoy playing protoss competitively because for the most part its really slow and you just turtle and max out on op units, i think terran is the best race as far as having fun.


Gasless is most fun, because you can a move chargelots f2 with no micro and still win :smiley: While terran microing and kitting perfectly across whole map and still lose. You macroing and didn’t even watch you army and you win… Also you will have like 50 bases and just spam gateway units, which is most brain dead style ever. It wouldn’t be so bad, but because zealots are faster than stimmed marines, they micro themsevles, they will follow, you can honestly a move and go macro for next 30 seconds and than look and you are wining probably…

Than just fly one prism and drop ht… Or in main LOL. Also you blink in when they move out and recall, or lower numbers of their units, by the time attack hits, you will have so much more units… Like protoss has so many builds, you can do almost anything and it works! Even in top masters if you are skilled enough. Unless you are top gm, you can do literally whatever you want…

Since most of the Terran here are low skilled and never experienced a real high level game

PvP not my favourite since I don’t like to kill a fellow Aiur

PvZ it’s alright. Late game is 50-50 balance

PvT very Terran favoured. But always amusing seeing them BM and rage quit after getting outplayed

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PvP: Also my favorite. I dont like the battery overcharge. I think it is dumber than MS Core. But I never had a problem with PvP volatility since I embrace the rock paper scissors. Also, at my level, Chargelot Archon is just way too good.

PvZ: Regardless of balance, the design of the match is completely broken. It is just as you said. It is just doing one massive timing attack build over and over again (with the current most popular flavor being glaive adepts). If it doesnt work, you die. And no matter how many patches are made, that hasn’t changed. Its been this way for at least two years. Completely dread PvZ.

PvT: I think it is actually very balanced. Yes, drops/harass can absolutely wreck you but its a double edged sword. You can catch and punish them. The only real issue I have with it is late game. I would rather die trying to kill a Terran early rather than play a 40 minute game I win where the Terran just massed Planetary fortresses, Turrets, Liberators, tanks, and other turtle Terran crap.

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PvP has gotten better recently I,m glad that proxies are no longer as strong due to the battery change.

PvZ is still looking very problematic at the top level. Protoss is forced to do damage and can’t play defensive macro since ots literally almost physically impossible to hold off zerg throwing hundreds of banelings at the protoss. It gets slightly better at lategame for Protoss but the matchup is still definitely Zerg favoured.
The only thing that protoss has going for in this matchup is timing attack from a glaive followup of some form, while they are powerful its by no means OP and can be defended by the Zerg.

PvT i think suffers from poor design while i think slightly Terran favored at pro level. I can see why Terrans whine a lot at lower league since its quite hard to not let ur army die to storm, disruptors and its quite unfun for the Terran

Otherwise i think Protoss at the top is pretty weak at the moment. Casters know this ex pro players know this.

Woah, a GM level Toss player on the forums :o

I haven’t played in forever, due to numerous reasons, but I sure haven’t missed it. P vs Z is blatant discrimination against people who like to play macro games (always has been). You know, people who are able to win through outplaying someone rather than relying on catching someone with their pants down… Aka, being the better player.

The other races are allowed to win via being the better player, whereas Toss players have next to zero solid ways of playing that are viable. Zero or 1 way to skin a cat as opposed to thousands for the other races. So, even if you did find 1 viable thing… well now your opponent knows what you will do, since there are no other options, thus making it far harder to win…

Basically, Toss is a race that doesn’t make any sense. You can’t just play solid and expect to win. In fact, there is no such thing vs Zerg at the highest level. And, really, if you want to gamble… just play poker. Probably could make more money and rage less via doing alternative forms of gambling. Gambling every game isn’t my idea of fun in Starcraft or how I would want to win.

I feel like there is only 1 strong end game comp vs Terran, which is disruptor, carrier, colossi. If you don’t have that comp, it’s really not much different than playing P vs Z. That means, you have to find a way to tech to carriers before end game, which might not be viable at the very highest level. No flexibility.

If disruptors didn’t exist in P vs P, I could like it a lot more. A mirror matchup for a Toss player should feel like a sanctuary. Finally a chance to win games via playing better than the opponent. For the most part, that’s exactly how it feels. Sure, it was a lil in the favor of the aggro monkey who preferred to not expand, but outside of that… better player won.

Exception: disruptors in P vs P. Disruptors sole purpose in P vs P is to turn the matchup into Z vs P, where nooblord wins just cause his units counter everything you can make, even if he is down 100 supply. It’s not fun outplaying a guy all game yet still always being on the verge of losing cause blink stalker, disruptor is the dumbest comp in the game, designed to give wins to those who would lose 100% of the time in any other world that made a fraction of sense.

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All of the PvX matchups are fun. PvZ is probably the worst, but it is still very entertaining.

/e: actually I take it back, PvR is kinda BS. But I’m playing Random so it’s RvR which is fine.

For me not necessarily certain matchups (even tho I also found PvT very frustrating, not as bad as TvT tho) but certain unit concepts that they doubled down upon.

Free units with broodlords and especially swarmhosts, interference matrix and the EMP splash increase are just things that make the gamedynamic way worse than it could be.
I rather have a straight forward unit such as a tank or a SC1 guardian than “your only core DPS units are disabled now, btw you lost 50% hp instantly on sudden impact without chance to micro against, and I don’t even have to aim anymore cause I just hit your whole 130 supply army with every single EMP” and freeunits swarming you, bleeding while oponent risks nothing.

Just frustrating mechanics.
Doesn’t mean that they should just be deleted without adding anything, definetly other tools are needed if this stuff would ever get deleted.
But man those are some really dumb concepts for me.


Hey SorroW it’s nice seeing you on the forums haha

You won’t get any good opinions on the forums. The majority of people on here are forum smurfs (people that use alt accounts to say whatever trash they want) or are very low ranked (where they complain about a race when they have plenty of room to improve).

Take this guy for example. His profile is hidden. He’s clearly just trolling. He’s half right, but he’s probably just a diamond beating on lower ranked people with a 60% winrate or something.

He’s half right here. In PvT, Protoss does play defensively in the early game, but from then on it’s all up in the air. In PvZ, this isn’t really the case as you have to be aggressive and get some damage done. Another reason why you shouldn’t take opinions seriously is because you got guys like this who only play 1 race (Terran) and think they have the game figured out for all 3 races.

Another troll poster. We all know PvZ is Zerg favored in the late game and PvT is 50-50 but depending on the point of the game it favors one race or the other.

As for me, the main reason (huge one) why I quit 1v1 is because of PvP. It really is a rock paper scissor matchup. There’s no solid strategy to macro out. I’ve seen pros try to open 1 gate or fast expand and then they just die to an allin (proxy robo surprise surprise). If you put a shield battery at the front to protect yourself from a robo allin, an oracle flies in your main. If you put a shield battery in the main, you get outmaneuvered by a warp prism allin. There’s no solution to the early game, and if you survive that stage, there’s the 2 base allins. Chargelot zealot is ridiculous. It’s just too powerful. It’s also extremely difficult to hold onto a third base, especially if your opponent is using a warp prism to spread the harass out and kill your valuable workers. Then there’s the late game with disruptors. You can count me out of that one.
I’m not even going to talk about cannon rush.

I have 2 issues with PvZ: you can’t allin anymore, and 66 drone ravager ling bane pushes. All of the allins by Protoss are pretty much null now. The only thing left is to do a coinflip with adepts. If you decide to play more macro-based, your opponent will definitely catch on, macro up to a good drone count, then slam you with ravager ling banes. The problem I have here is that this attack can hit just before you have reliable splash damage. Your opponent has just as much army supply at your doorstep with a slight economic lead while you’re struggling to hold onto your third base with the same army count at your own base. Ravagers are just too strong with their frequent biles and lack of tags, making immortals and stalkers do much less damage to them. They also bile more frequently than a sentry can put down force fields. A 100/100 unit has significantly more value than a 50/100 unit. It’s 50 minerals, but come on. Ravagers should not be this strong.

In PvT, I’d say it’s not fun holding that first big push Terrans do. You barely have enough to hold the first big bio push. This is the stage in the game where Terran is clearly Terran favored - the 2 base pushes. But if you survive this, you as the Protoss are favored. If you keep your economic lead, it becomes your turn to strike. Then if the Terran survives, it’s all up in the air from there until it’s mass lib/viking, then it’s just not fun for either side.
There’s also the early game factor. Terrans have so many cheese/proxy options. The only thing Protoss has is a Maxpax or proxy gate allin/pressure. Literally no other cheeses work nearly as well at the higher level. This is why Protosses always expand, and Terrans don’t SCV scout Protoss, because Terrans know Protoss will always get an expansion by ~1:30. Meanwhile if a Protoss doesn’t see a barracks at the front, it could be 50 different strategies that could hit at your doorstep (or not) at any second past 2 minutes.

I would say PvT has the highest amount of strategy involved. There’s so many things both sides can do in the midgame. PvZ is basically one-dimensional, but there is still room for strategy here. PvP is absolutely 0 strategy from start to finish. It’s all big brain moves and cheeses, to 2 base allins, to late game disruptors (i.e. who can get the bigger OOOOH out of the crowd).

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Another clueless kid who has no idea what he is talking about

PvZ is balanced below pro/GM level.

But of course you wouldn’t know since you don’t play the game like the rest of the whiners here.

But hey, keep your crying and whining and entertain us

Of course, if your all-in build fails, you’re going to lose the game… that’s NOT a “design” problem.

It’s absurd to see Protoss players constantly complaining they can’t win a long game while going for all-ins every game. WELL DUH! If you’re going for builds that don’t have a late game, you have no right to complain you’re weak in late game. That’s a result of your playstyle.

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Another clueless kid who has no idea what he is talking about.

I am ~4900 Protoss and ~4850 Terran and ~4550 Zerg and ~4500 Random. I’m not hiding my profile. You’re all talk behind a fake account buddy.

True. If players allin, they should expect to lose if their attack fails.


Clueless Kid getting a meltdown by truth lolol

Sit down little boy and L2P

Just wanted to correct that, the matchh up can be lost by protoss in 0.1sc, terrans however need to not pay attention for 3sc to lose a game, can slack in storms and disruptor shots and still come out on top.

Did I say all in even one time? Adept timing attack is not an all in, it is an opener. At the risk of sounding patronizing, because you already know this, the adept all in can fail to kill the Zerg and you can still have the game play out from there. This isnt some degenerate all in like chargelot immortal that cuts workers and gas. And actually it rarely kills the Zerg. You need to kill enough drones to slow their economy for you to even have an opportunity to play late game and you have to have enough army by the time they counter attack that you dont just die.

But the idea that you dont need to attack the Zerg is ludicrous. I dont think that is what you are saying… but what I am saying is that surely you agree that the Protoss must attack the Zerg before late game. You cant sit back and take your third 2.5+ minutes later and have 20+ workers less and expect to win in the late game.

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PVZ is my favorite. I like the feel and dynamic of the matchup.
PVT is 2nd favorite. I like it for the most part but I feel like we’re a bit too reliant on splash whereas T’s T1 units scale way too good in comparison to ours (ofc if they didn’t, other changes would have to be made. Not saying It’d make sense to nerf Terran T1 without compensation - I just don’t like the current design in that regard)

PVP is least favorite because it feels super-volatile and lategame feels stale.

I’m a low Masters Protoss.

I enjoy PVZ the most. Coincidentially, It’s also my worst matchup. Probably because of my unwillingness to rely on timing attacks - I like to play the macro game, which most of the time doesn’t work out.

Regardless, the matchup has a very interesting dynamic I feel. Protoss truly, especially in the early game, to me feels like the race with strong, individual units versus the overwhelming swarm. And so, Terrain becomes super-important… etc.

Only thing I don’t enjoy about PVZ is Mutas. Not that they’re necessarily overpowered, but I just find them tedious to play against given that they can outmaneouver my army so easily. I’ve had a few of those games end up with a very interesting baserace though.

PVT I enjoy the 2nd most. I like almost everything about this matchup - except our overreliance on splash damage. It feels like when Marines reach a critical mass, the only thing that matters is whether I have my Colossi/Storm/Disruptors out or not. Losing a single of those units is at a certain stage game-ending.

I can imagine the matchup feels similarly volatile from T’s perspective. When games do end up going to the very lategame, I enjoy them a lot. I also enjoy the early game a lot in this matchup - what I don’t enjoy is the volatility in a certain timing window in the midgame when there are very few splash units out, and Stim is done - P’s T1 units just melt and so we’re insanely reliant on the splash.

PVP is my least favorite. Oracle/Adepts just have such an easy time wrecking mineral lines in seconds - and even in the lategame the matchup seems rather boring to me.

An opener with no upgrades ,probe cutting, really delayed third expansion, no aditional gases for tech and future upgrades.

Well it all comes down to your arbitrary definition of “all in”.

The fact is if a Protoss and Zerg at the highest levels (and lower for that matter) are both not attacking each other and macroing as hard as they can, the Zerg is going to max out faster and have a better economy. So passively macroing up as Protoss is just not a good option in PvZ.