It’s really frustrating losing a game to someone you know you outplayed by every metrics. It’s what is pushing people away from this game. I can have 100+ more APM and still lose to apetoss because he reached critical mass of late game unit and it’s physically impossible to beat it. Even with ghosts and liberator, disruptors outrange both. You simply can’t out value a Protoss player. Gotta try to base trade but they just get 14000 shield batteries and canon and it’s not an option. It’s sad because the bad design and balance is pushing the last few players away.
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I played a game against a 5.6k APEtoss. He used a mothership to recall an army of void rays plus two bases of probes (to flex) into my main. I killed it all for free with a fungal and some biles. He ended up winning anyway. The strength of late game Protoss coupled with the fact that an APE can do it is just too much for the game to take. If you play late game vs APEtoss, you are a masochist and should probably see a therapist ASAP.
Protoss offense needs more skill than casting storm -Protoss defense needs more skill than massing shield batteries and cannons- but it doesn’t.
Honestly, Protoss being this strong inside fights was just fine until they buffed chronoboost way back when. Now Protoss has the same economy as Zerg but a substantially more powerful late game. Adding on the shield battery and it’s impossible to prevent it from going to the late game, and that’s how you end up with 61% PvZ win-rates at the pro level (what a joke).
Any Zerg who is in Grandmaster during the “APEtoss reign of terror” should be sent a gold medal of valor with a handwritten letter from the CEO of Activision congratulating them on doing the impossible. I’m not talking “gold plated”, I am talking solid gold. Platinum would be fine (if they are taking orders). Put this quote onto it from Arnold Schwarzenegger:
What we face may look insurmountable. But I learned something from all those years of training and competing. I learned something from all those sets and reps when I didn’t think I could lift another ounce of weight. What I learned is that we are always stronger than we know.
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The resistance from Protoss players to accept nerfs is actively killing the game, reducing the status of the rank they « achieved ».
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You guys are ALL terrible Terran whiners and need to learn how to play the game.
Stop being GOD AWFUL and realize that Protoss are a poorly designed weak race that has had constant nerfs to them making them almost unplayable.
Don’t give me this “I’m an APETOSS player” BS because I play Terran and look at my games against Toss…If I lose it’s cause I did something stupid or didn’t catch the cheese in time.
If anything it’s ZERG you should be complaining about!!!
LEARN TO PLAY!!!
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Yeah no bud. Nice try. Anyone with any brain cells can realize how broken and easy Protoss is. The microscopic nerfs change nothing.
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Ok Karen, let’s just ignore the player who actually plays BOTH races and can show you just how underpowered Protoss are.
Damn trolls are insufferable, just want to come on here and complain.
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You guys are ALL terrible Terran whiners and need to learn how to play the game.
Oh I can play this card too. You guys are ALL terrible Protoss whiners and need to learn how to play the game. Boo hoo you got nerfs. Stop being a cry baby.
Notice that you simultaneously complain about nerfs, while also throwing basically “get good.” You don’t have any logical consistency. You’re just another APEtoss.
Stop being GOD AWFUL and realize that Protoss are a poorly designed weak race that has had constant nerfs to them making them almost unplayable.
How about you learn to adapt, and stop being such a whiny little toddler. Also, the amount of nerfs goes to hand in hand with Protoss being so fundamentally OP.
Don’t give me this “I’m an APETOSS player” BS because I play Terran and look at my games against Toss…If I lose it’s cause I did something stupid or didn’t catch the cheese in time.
Screenshot your profile, your race with the highest MMR, achievements page (to show that it is you), and win rate. Because you’re either lying, or you merely dabble in Terran and pretend that it means anything.
LEARN TO PLAY!!!
I love this so much. You complain about Terrans who sound off, and yet you’re the one by far the most butthurt in this thread.
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100% with you on all of this. Playing Zerg vs Protoss is like tearing your hair out. 1 Adept into 2 into 4, then they attack your freshly built third with a mass of units while they expand to their own third. Adepts and Blink stalkers are some of the easiest micro in the game too. If they do damage they expand to a fourth faster than you and instantly win the game five minutes later as they amove through your army and static D with 3/3. Cannot even believe they are buffing Protoss upgrade timings. Its already hard enough keeping up with them. Then if you manage to hold on you have waves of 12-18 zealots attacking one side of the map while their clump of army attacks the other side.
Literally every end game army I face vs Protoss is “Amove a clump of units and press a spell on my disruptors or high templars”. This patch is a giant leap in the right direction but…really? Its been 2 1/2 years of 4k to 5.5k Protoss players abusing A-move Press Spell. Don’t get how anyone enjoys playing Protoss, its mechanics are obviously way lower than the other two races.
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It’s always funny to see 1/0 zergs fighting 3/3 protoss because the zerg had to choose between upgrades and tech progression (tech is more important by far). Zerg units don’t benefit from upgrades because splash ignores upgrades. Zerg units with upgrades die just as as fast as zerg units without upgrades. The point is, Zerg’s units melt instantaneously inside of fights and that’s just how it is. Don’t go wasting money trying to change it, because you can’t.
Not only that, the new “speedlots” are fast enough they can get away from anything except for zerglings. So, the one unit that can chase zealots down is the unit that zealots slaughter. So, it’s a “zero risk” harassment and combined with the mobility of warp gate (he can have zealots on either side of the map without travel time) they are far more mobile than all Zerg (zerglings included).
Correct. I wouldn’t care if it took skill to do. Throwing out disruptor shots requires near zero skill and near zero effort, while dodging them requires tons of both. You can dodge a hundred shots to only take one and the net sum of all your advantages (which you worked to accumulate for 10 minutes) vanishes in the blink of an eye.
Terrans will complain about a glob of marines dying to a storm or disruptor, but have you tried losing banes? Yeah those cost far more than a marine.
If it takes 15 clicks to deal with 1 disruptor shot, it should take 15 clicks to cast a disruptor shot. That’s fair. Why Protoss is given under-handed treatment in the APM department is beyond me. It’s clear Protoss is deliberately designed to cater to the type of people who are more oriented towards MOBA style RTS games. Protoss isn’t as slow paced as MOBAs, but it’s aren’t anywhere near the pacing of zerg or terran. Have you ever tried playing it? Golly, it is so flipping boring. There is nothing to do all game long. It is so slow paced it is legitimately boring.
It so hard stim back clump of marine if disruptor launched huh guess what disruptor prevent terran stimroll against protoss army otherwise terran needs emp twice and here we go
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Spells (specifically Storm and Disruptors) may ignore armor upgrades, but Skytoss and Gateway units certainly do not. Your units will trade horribly if they fall behind on upgrades.
That depends on your creep spread.
If I remember correctly, Zerglings trade at about 3:1 on even upgrades against Zealots, that is as long as the Zerglings have enough surface area to get in and attack. Falling behind on armor upgrades against Protoss weapon upgrades is particularly damaging, because it enables Zealots to two-shot Zerglings.
No, it is dumb to make a unit needlessly cumbersome to use just because it has an AOE effect.
“Perfectly” splitting against splash always requires more clicks than casting or attacking, except in cases where the opponent has the speed and leeway to just back out in one direction. In practice, the best way that to balance out the micro requirements for both players is to put some powerful spells or splash on both sides of the match-up, such that both sides have benefits to micro and the potential for heavy losses without it.
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God you are just an idiot. I am higher MMR with my Terran than I am with Protoss. The race has SOOO much more abilities and units.
It’s not hard to click “View Profile” on my link and see that I am D2 with Terran. You on the other hand have ABSOLUTELY no games whatsoever and love to come on here and comment about balance.
Troll, ignored.
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You realize how bad D2 is ? You don’t even play the real game. Your opinion on balance is about as valid as the opinion of a toddler on complex international politics.
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Gandhi has played 14,000+ games, and his highest MMR is up to diamond 2. The amount of pure stupidity to be that bad after so long is astounding. And then he has the nerve to want to talk about balance. Clown show.
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I literally proved the exact opposite. Your defective brain (not that I can expect much from Protoss players) just looks at the direct evidence and denies it utterly.
I once got 4450 with Protoss… in FIFTEEN GAMES. This is not representative, it’s anecdotal.
Free units (e.g. swarm hosts and broods) are much more important than upgrades (especially carapace). A lot of times zergs will only go +1 melee so that their counter-attacks have a little more punch vs buildings. Generally, that’s the only upgrade they will get while racing towards hive tech. Sometimes they will also do +1 missile.
That’s incorrect. As long as the Protoss is 1 attack upgrade ahead of the zerg’s carapace, zealots two-shot zerglings. The Protoss will have at least this large of a lead in >99% of scenarios. In this configuration, zealots trade at a >= 10:1 ratio against zerglings. That means if 1000 minerals of zealots fight against 1000 minerals of zerglings, the Protoss will lose 100 minerals of zealots and the zerg will lose 1000 minerals of zerglings.
This is the default outcome with no micro from the Protoss. Micro on the zerglings is almost pointless since you can’t manage individual zerglings inside a fight. There are too many and they die almost instantly. Zealots however have plenty of time to micro, and this greatly increases their efficiency above the 10:1 ratio.
That’s a niche case scenario because with enough disruptors you can never advance towards a protoss if that’s the kind of micro you are using. Even then, the protoss still gains two things: ground (they can advance and push back the enemy), and zoning - a chance to kill immobile units like widow mines and tanks. If you want to advance and not run away, you have to charge into the disruptors and simple pull-back micro is not sufficient in that case.
So even in your worst case scenario the disruptor is still highly valuable. Simply displacing the enemy units is valuable. Let’s not even talk about how they are so incredibly deadly that you have to baby sit your army at all times. Even watching your army, a prism can drop off 2 disruptors from a weird angle and hit you with no reaction time just due to how your screen is placed. Forcing that much attention onto army management is very useful too.
As a terran i always try to finish the game before 9 min mark against protoss cause the late game is in favor for protoss too much. Either void/carries or disruptor finish my entire bio/mech army either way , even if i have 7 or 8 orbitals for good income.
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Don’t you just love your planetaries dying in nanoseconds to some blink dts, or your entire army walking into a disruptor when you looked away for a moment? Meanwhile protoss a-clicks up a ramp and it takes forever before zealot even start to die.
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Depending on the unit, you can lose a lot of DPS sticking to +1. For instance, Zerglings would deal only 2 damage to the health of +3 armor Zealots.
There was an important term in there that you glossed over: “even upgrades”.
If the upgrades are even and Zerglings can get the surface area to attack, Zerglings will beat Zealots at about a 3:1 (3 Zerglings to 1 Zealot) margin. This illustrates exactly why you can’t afford to fall behind on upgrades against Protoss. You are throwing drastically weakened units at the opponent and hoping to win, and the units are weakened to such a degree that you probably lose far more value in units than you would spend on their upgrades.
Skytoss is an even more extreme example, since many Protoss air units (particularly Carriers and Phoenixes) gain around 60% (sometimes more) extra damage at +3, if the opponent doesn’t get armor upgrades. The main reason why Zerg players get killed by Skytoss transitions is that they fall behind on tech (particularly Corruptors) and upgrades.
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I just made a video proving protoss is imbalanced, any thoughts?
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