Primal Zerg Are Trash

Even insinuating this might come to their mind is a bit of heresy.

Now I agree, Izsha is by far my least favorite SCII character. It’s like if Raynor could have regular conversations with the adjutant. And if the adjutant constantly reminded you that bonus objectives increased your power level. 10 levels in. On brutal.

BUT having said that… I think Izsha in Co-op is inevitable assuming they try to keep racial balance. With cerebrates off the table, zerg has the greatest lack of characters they can really use. Just going off of SC’s cast the only ones that really work are the Overmind, Izsha, Niadra and Zurvan, I think the other broodmothers are a bit too obscure.

But having said that Stetmann showed they’re willing to go fully off the rails for zerg commanders, so they may have more weirdness planned. Hard to say.

2 Likes

I am still unhappy that Stetmann is a commander. (I am not using the word angry, because I am not going to throw fits because of it)

5 Likes

Ditto. I hate him enough on the map.

Aside from being an insulting mockery of people with mental illness, he’s not that different from Kerry being a mary sue who gets to rule the zerg because Metzen personally liked her over the other zerg characters. Nevermind that the zerg were more interesting back when the Overmind and cerebrates were trying to eat humanity and become perfect a la the Borg.

Everything started going downhill once Blizzard let Metzen write the stories and insert his girlfriend issues into everything.

It’s going to keep getting worse. If you care about story, then you should jump ship now before it gets worse. It will get much worse in the future.

Metzen was with Blizzard since before it was Blizzard.

1 Like

That sin of ultra sensitivity is true, some will find it funny to another irritant, other meh, but it is no different than seeing any excentric person with his socIAL limitations, his reaction is a stain of Rorschach

what else can we say he is sentimental,he likes the vibe of modern prometheus and I like his work.

But he wasn’t having relationship troubles coloring his professional work during that entire span. I think this happened in WoW, too, with thrall leaving to go find/save/attack the elements or something in cataclysm. One quote I do remember from Metzen is that he does “love a good redemption arc” and as sweet and carebear as that is, it isn’t an excuse to ruin good characters for the purpose of redeeming them.

He’s addicted to terrazine, right? It’s not a mockery of people with mental illness, unless you’re one of those sort that considers addiction to be a mental illness, rather than a consequence of choice.
Considering that most of the Coop commanders are actually dead or gone, they could just bring back a cerbrate, or Narud, or maybe test a new race in coop.
Dead - Zera Mengsk Tychus
Gone - Jimmy Kerrigan
Ok it definitely isn’t most but it clearly isn’t a barrier to development

Yes. As a visual artist.

That doesn’t translate to good storytelling skills. Storytelling requires practice and study to get good at.

Starcraft was one of the first stories he ever wrote. It shows: the structure is extremely amateurish.

Cerebrates are off-limits due to a highly questionable maybe-legal agreement with Games Workshop. Even though they own Warhammer 40k, not Starship Troopers. Bringing in Zasz or Daggoth would require retconning their breed into something else.

Reviving dead characters for co-op isn’t going to fix the outstanding problems with Starcraft’s story. For a professional game with a multi-million dollar budget, the last 20 twenty years have been extremely amateurish in their execution of story. “Cute girl becomes bug queen, kills billions, kills her ex-boyfriend/daddy, kills space satan, ascends to heaven with her other boyfriend.“

You can’t fix that without a reboot, and I don’t trust Blizzard to ever have good consistent storytelling standards even after reboots. World of Warcraft has an awful nonsensical story, for example.

As I said elsewhere, you’re better off making a new game and using that as a vehicle for better storytelling. Without any involvement from Blizzard.

You keep saying this, and every time you are asked to elaborate, you demonstrate that you don’t even know what the story actually is. You get things factually wrong all the time. At this point, im seriously considering the idea that youre just trolling, because its really hard to be this consistently wrong over this long a period of time.

2 Likes

Kelthar, do you seriously not consider the option that someone can view reality in a very different manner compared to yours?

Just because someone has absolutely different, from your POV or utterly nonsense takes, doesn’t mean they do it to piss you or anyone else off.

People are people.

There were moments when I considered your opinions absolutely dense, yet I haven’t really considered you are trolling at that time.

1 Like

If he was just dense, I could understand that. But he’s consistently factually wrong, about almost everything. He completely makes things up all the time, and when he gets called on it, he just drops the conversation until the next time, where he does it again. Occasionally he protests that he knows what he’s talking about, but any actual fact checking always proves him wrong. I can only see somebody do that so many times before I suspect theyre doing it deliberately.

Also just for clarification, Metzen’s first big writing role was Warcraft II. It wasn’t StarCraft. Nor would I particularly consider this the downfall of Blizzard’s writing. Unless you consider Warcraft 1 and Lost Vikings the pinnacle of storytelling.

4 Likes

WC2 has fairly simple storytelling and is based on established dynamics expanded from WC1. The briefings are fairly simple exposition dumps telling the player what to do. There’s very little story continuing between missions besides the overarching war narrative. This was typical of RTS games at the time and for a while after. There simply wasn’t an opportunity to make as many gaffes as would be possible in a more complex and characterization heavy narrative.

SC1 is where Metzen’s storytelling starts to show its weaknesses. In WC1 and WC2 the overarching focus was on the war between two sides, without much in the way of characterization. In SC1 there is a lot of dialogue to establish characters and interpersonal drama. The war itself takes a backseat to interpersonal drama, and this is exaggerated in each further installment.

The SC1 interpersonal drama is fairly messy since it introduces plot points and characters quickly and doesn’t give the story much time to breathe. The manual is supposed to explain things, but it’s clearly written by a different writer based on a different version of the story. Part of the problem stems from the campaigns being linearly ordered, so you can’t depict the same events from different POVs to show what different sides thought at the time like was done in the contemporaneous game Tiberian Sun: Firestorm.

Some plot hooks and arcs are introduced briefly and either never resolved in a satisfactory manner or forgotten completely. For example, the twilight path of the protoss alliance, the zerg’s consumption of humanity as the “determinant” in their planned war against the protoss, or the Confederacy, Overmind, and the Protoss galactic empire being established as core facets of the setting by the website and manual lore only to be casually killed off in the first three campaign episodes. It’s like the writer thought they’d never get a sequel and decided to sever or conclude all plot arcs they had, leaving little to work with when they did get a sequel.

I find this fairly frustrating. The lore introduces fascinating world building only to tear it down immediately, leaving a soggy foundation for the franchise to work with.

I’m not saying SC1 is awful. I think it has a lot of good ideas. I think it could have been markedly improved by revisions and foresight.

But that’s probably irrelevant now since the franchise is destined for the mobile market and its loot box microtransaction dystopia.

Great, youre not interested in character driven stories. Don’t care. That doesn’t make it bad, just not to your tastes. You probably think Lord of the Rings would have been more interesting if it had focused more on the logistics of moving all the cavalry from Rohan to Gondor and spent less time focusing on that silly “Frodo” character, huh.

4 Likes

Yup, and he went on to do StarCraft and Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and their respective expansions, games that are considered the pinnacle of the “golden age” of the company.

I can’t recall if he worked on Diablo II or not. I want to say no since that was Blizzard North.

Anyway, I don’t have a hate-on for Metzen at all. He created and had a solid hand in shaping some of my favourite video game universes, games that were a huge part of my young adulthood.

3 Likes

That’s not what I said. You are misrepresenting my argument.

At this point, im struggling to even care what your argument is. It keeps changing every time youre asked. You talk about all the expectations that the writers created for you, but then cant find any actual evidence of these being established. You complain about the fact that characters act like people instead of war-running automatons. You complain about the story reaching its conclusion when it ends, of all things. At this point, even if this is your sincere opinion and not just you trolling us, its not based on enough reality to matter.

3 Likes

I actually had to look it up because I was pretty sure he didn’t (given the fact Blizzard North kind of existed in its own bubble), but lo and behold he was one of the primary writers of both Diablo and Diablo II, specifically being the one who wrote the greater world of the games. Kind of makes sense since they also had the same detailed manuals that Blizzard had going before digital media broke that trend.

3 Likes

Given what happened to Warcraft after he left, I can’t see him as the devil.

He may have had only a few story patterns, but he cared.

2 Likes