Oracles on Vorazun P2

So I was trying to figure out if Oracles suffer from P2 damage penalty or not.

In a replay at weapons level 2 I see: 19 damage, 31 vs light which is the amount of damage they should do without damage penalty but then where does Strike from the Shadows come into play or do they not benefit from the damage boost from Strike from the Shadows?

With recent patch change their energy regeneration is so good you can clear ground with them (and clear air with Corsair).

Could just be a visual bug (one of many) where it simply display the damage incorrectly. If I recall, many of the tooltip show the wrong damage. You can simply test it on one of M’s maps.

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Oracles do suffer from the P2 damage penalty. It’s pretty universal. The damage scaling applied in the Prestige patch is generally so universal that it generally even applies to damage by Black Death – a unit that does reduced damage takes reduced damage from Black Death, because it’s coded as self-inflicted damage.

Oracles do benefit from weapon upgrades since the Vorazun revamp, but they don’t benefit from Strike from the Shadows’ damage increase – only from the energy regeneration increase.

Silly thing about the damage reduction though, it doesn’t display anywhere on the cards. So a DT P0 and a DT P2 claim to do the same amount of damage, but it’s adjusted as it leaves the unit.

Okay so I had a look and my Oracle at level 2 weapons vs Photon Cannon with 1 shields:

  • Tooltip describes 19 damage, 31 vs light (which is pre-Withering Siphon damage)
  • Applying Withering Siphon would be 14.25 damage
  • Applying Strike from the Shadows would be 16.38 damage
  • Photon Cannon takes 15 damage
  • Conclusion: Oracle benefits and suffers from both (damage reduced by 1 from Shield upgrade)
  • Is there another interpretation?

At 3 weapons vs 3 Armour it puts P2 Oracles at about 18 DPS vs non-P2 Void Ray’s at 12 DPS. Oracles get bonus vs Light, Void Ray’s get bonus vs Armoured.

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So I tried this on the Maguro arcade maps, which should be identical in behaviour to Co-op but make testing eitehr. I replicated your scenario (+2 cloaked P2 Oracles), attacking a Bunker.

First I set the Bunker to 0 Armour. The first hit registered 15 damage, and the second registered 14.

I then set it to 50 Armour. The first hit registered 15 damage, and the second registered 14.

Oracles deal spell damage – they aren’t affected by armour.

So the calculation should be:

  • Tooltip says 19 damage.
  • P2 reduces it to 14.25.
  • Strike from the Shadows isn’t applied.
  • Armour isn’t applied.
  • Bunker (or Photon Cannon, tested both) take either 15 or 14 damage, averaging out to 14.25.

For a while, I thought Oracle attack is a “spell”.

It is:

Costs energy as bypasses Armour.

Yeah, more accurately it’s a spell that’s a “weapon”.

It’s weird and a neat idea, though the energy cost has made it rather meh in coop (until now it seems)

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Yes the boosted energy regeneration from Strike from the Shadows makes it feel like Oracles have no problem at all clearing ground even as P2.

Mass oracle +/- corsairs have always been a valid strategy. It’s a bit of a hit and run, with a bit of wise conservation (on a few maps).

Only map I say it doesn’t work is on ME. And I say that loosely cuz it’s assuming your ally does next to nothing.

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Even against hybrid land units? How many Oracles are we talking about?

As an example:

  • 10 upgraded P2 Oracles = 183 DPS
  • 10 upgraded P2 Centurions = 117 DPS (against 4 Armour)
  • Withering Siphon = 20 DPS
  • 2000 HP Hybrid Dominator = 7.3 seconds

Compared to non-P2:

  • 10 upgraded Oracles = 244 DPS
  • 10 upgraded Centurions = 71 DPS (against 4 Armour)
  • 2000 HP Hybrid Dominator = 6.7 seconds
  • need Black Hole or Disruption Web to CC

Part of that is gauging how many corsairs you need against air. The less air the easier it gets actually.

Where oracles start having issues is in sustained fights, as energy regen become and issue thus affecting your DPS consistency. Otherwise, killing hybrids are a breeze, especially considering you can stasis stun them and take 0 damage.

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Do non-P2 Oracle Stasis Traps work on Hybrids do you know?

I feel like almost the only time sustain would become a problem would be on infested maps. Usually I just build enough Corsair to defend (I think it takes about 6 Corsair to protect a Rock formation of DoN) however I wonder if Oracles, Dark Pylons and Stasis Traps could work equally as well especially as P2.

In my experience a P2 Centurion, Oracle, Corsair army can handle any ground comp with a lot of energy retention to be able to spam Black Holes or Dark Pylon late game (to Warp in Dark Archon to mass Dominate).

Yeah, the stasis (with research) will allow you to target while stasis’d. Otherwise it remains invulnerable while effected. And P2 just also do the damage drain is all.

As for the sustain, I just meant strictly using Oracles and Corsairs. There are ways to get around on ME. You can always pre build cannons, make units, etc. Same for DoN, although this is far easier of a time cuz when you target the structures down with oracles (it is actually on of V’s faster ways to clear DoN).

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I know what to try next, P2 Oracles.

Glad to hear it :+1:. Please do note the duration reduction on Stasis Wards specifically in P2 (down to ~4sec). It’s a far cry from the 15sec it normally gets.

In P2, your Confusion remains the most potent prestige-damager, as it is a debuff casted onto the unit (remains with them for 10sec, for 20DPS). Disruption web does the same but obviously remain a static AoE (much like stasis). Dark coil while short lived does add to the overall damage output that’s so sorely lack in P2. Considering the easy access compared to Confusion from Dark Archon, it shouldn’t be overlooked either.

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Non P2 Oracles have been used on miner evacto solo a mutation with black death by putting everything on stasis, this was done before the bug that made P2 vorazun units not die to black death. P2 Oracles are almost useless because of the extreme reduction to stasis duration.

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You mean useless at cheesing infested map with mass stasis ward or in general? P2 Stasis Traps do a pretty good job at spawn camping with the life they knock of softening enemies up for the arrival of your forces (effective DPS increases a lot when you can do damage from across the map).

I actually got turned off P2 because of how clunky Archons are. While I think they’re great to mix in in the mid game I feel like a Centurion/Oracle/Corsair army has an easier time dominating early because of Strike from the Shadows, movement speed, CC and no body blocking. I think I’d generally only build mass DA if I was confident of fighting within Dark Pylon range (defensive maps etc).

4-6 DAs in the mid/late game are great though for locking down Hybrids and dominating capital ships. By this time I find my energy is up so high I can afford to drop extra Dark Pylons to protect them as well.