Hello, I’m not a Terran player, but today I noticed something unusual — a teammate’s Siege Tank was repaired by a MULE while it was in enemy territory. I always thought MULEs were only used for gathering minerals quickly, nothing else.
Since this doesn’t seem natural and Terran already feels quite strong, I’d like to suggest removing the MULE’s repair ability.
(Also, I rarely write here on forum, so I’d appreciate it if my post isn’t deleted again, and if L. could refrain from lecturing me or issuing suspensions.)
It’s literally been in the game since WoL beta. The mule is a glorified SCV without an attack. It’s perfectly natural.
That explains a lot.
Nope. Repair is a very common use for them actually. But they serve to allow Terran to recover their economic deficit from building construction (since they have to pull SCVs off the mineral line to build) and orbital/Planetary transformations.
This does have some additional benefits in the late-game of course, once you’ve sunk thousands of resources into additional Orbitals, you can trade out a significant portion of your SCVs for Mules (though you still need some for gas mining).
Terran is fine in TvZ. Not so much TvP, but that’s more because Protoss is absolutely busted right now and has been for the better part of a year.
No. There’s literally no reason to do so.
Patently untrue. What we hate is when “advice” and “balance changes” are poorly thought out with little to no reasoning on why it should happen nor any consideration for what it would mean for the balance of the game and unit in question.
The idea itself is well thought out, but I’ve noticed that some users on the forum tend to bully others and make personal attacks. As a result, m. end up closing threads, which doesn’t seem fair to those who are contributing constructively!
Reasoning: if I cannot heal my zerg units during battle, I cannot drop Queens onto far battlefield, and they too slow off creep, I do not see the reason why terran can drop from air - just using Energy some MULES that are healing half damaged Thors and Siege Tanks.
And is not natural, just SCV should heal those units - using resources of course. And they should move with the army, not dropped from the sky.
repair is pain but to be honest i would love to see better healing mechaic for zerg then nerfing others.
for example instead nerfing mule for dropping the i forgot stage just allow zerg to auto cast. allow toss pre load there energy. Kinda how larva works or just it adds time to last longer same thing.
And let’s be little bit realistic: who thought that MULE eg. Drop damaged sattelites from orbit and they did not burn in air but instead they collect minerals faster and heal units? Then they fail in some seconds, they could repair just other units but not fix themselfs
I don’t have moderation powers, Cat. Only Bliz employees do. And you are fully aware of that.
Instead of discussing moderation, stick to the topic and your posts/threads won’t be closed/removed (for that reason at least). Something that you are also fully aware of.
Different races are different, and on top of that, repair costs money where transfuse doesn’t.
Also, queen walks/German Taxi is a thing, so that’s a bad argument in itself.
Why? MULES are quite literally glorified SCVs with a timed life and no attack. They are functionally the same and fulfil the same purpose.
It’s a game though. Game mechanics don’t always have to be realistic.
Seeing as you’ve almost certainly never actually seen the Mule animation, it drops in a drop pod which protects them from burning up in the air. Fun fact - This is something we also see in the campaign with bio units.
Yes, because it’s a game mechanic, and that’s one of the things that helps to balance them.
In a real-world situation, this would be something that they would fix, yes. But this isn’t the real world, it’s a game.
Side note, Mules can actually repair other mules if they take damage.
>:( forum did not show me miro making me redundant
Mech is not that strong; dropping MULEs afield favors Mech over bio, and means you aren’t mining with them which is a significant trade-off.
It’s basically always more efficient to bring SCVs with your army than to drop MULEs down, since they repair at the same rate but the MULE mines around four times the minerals. I did this a lot and it is extremely good to just have like 4 SCVs on auto-repair with your tank group. It has a cost - the workers not mining, getting killed, and the actual repair fees add up - and it’s why I’m saying this. Dropping a MULE is substantially worse than this.
This, of course, all is to say nothing that removing an option is just not good?
Queens also have an actual attack and can decide what they will be spending their energy on in this scenario later than the Orbital dropping a MULE could. Transfuse also being a burst heal means that you want to do it a bit “late”, while repair being a constant rate means the MULE has to get dedicated early- which means it can also be wasting time and more easily end up useless.
Which basically boils down to… yeah, it’s different, and it’s weird that it’s different but it’s also good that it’s different.
I completely disagree.
Repair is the best because it goes reasonably quick and you can stack a lot of healing from multiple SCVs, which is an important part of why it’s balanced around costing resources - which creates an argument that it sucks because others cost energy.
Medivac healing is the best due to its modularity. It doesn’t heal the fastest so it can have flaws in combat, but it won’t waste healing and the Medivac will always immediately snap to healing a new ally every time its current one is full or dies.
Transfusion is extremely strong in combat, but it suffers that about half of Zerg units cannot be missing enough health to take proper advantage of it, or frequently get instantly killed ie. feedback and steady targeting.
Natural regeneration is slow enough that it isn’t useful for most units. Drones, Zerglings, and Banelings are the only ones that actually consistently get to appreciate the amount of healing that 0.34 health per second is.
Shields heal 2.8 per second, which is a lot, but remember there’s a 7.143 second delay and any HP damage is permanent.
Mutas as well, given they have Rapid Regeneration, so their innate healing is significantly faster.
Buildings on creep, unless they’re on the front line, usually will appreciate the healing too, without also completely negating any damage done. The heal over time can be useful, but it’s definitely the weakest of the healing we see in play.
Your argument is bad. What G. Taxi you talk about? Of course races are different but MULE was designed just to gather minerals faster. So is not really a glorified SCV, they cannot gather Gas - that’s good.
For me MULE is too powerful, I mean he can teleport for free anywhere on map and start heal.
Someone said about Orbital CC, that primary purpose is to Scan. That’s it.
Queen Transfuse - is too weak, I cannot heal effectively a damaged Hatchery , while Terrans can just lift up, swap or very fast repair buildings. For Protoss a damaged Nexus will get back shield automatically - without any cost, and nearby pylons + defense cannons won’t depend on the Nexus.
(side remark: suppose if hatch dies - until you make new one, nearby spores die again too fast. So exactly what is mostly needed (air defense for Zerg ) no matter if you made 100 spores - all just vanish in seconds! What a queen transfuse can do? Almost nothing - so nobody use Transfuse/ Heal in base defense. Sure overlord can generate some creep but in case of attack they are firstly hit. Overseer cannot even generate creep)
So Queen healing abilities are the worst. Zerg use Queen for early def and mainly Larvae.
Whatever, so in conclusion I consider SCVs are powerful enough , MULEs can be removed from game or at least nerfed not to heal units.
MULE’s can drop anywhere on map, on far far battlefield - just if needed - without any costs at all (ok energy) - heal strong Mech units faster than a costly and slow Queen could heal weaker Bio units.
It’s a weird name because lots of build order variants / particular timing attacks get weird names. Not everything has a pure function name like 4gate blink; forge fast expand; 3rax reaper; mmmm; lingbanemuta; host nydus all are. This is because weird names are neat? I don’t really get it myself but it’s very common across every game ever, even chess openings get weird names.
Nobody said this because that would be crazy to say. The Orbital’s primary purpose is to call down MULEs for mineral income.
I do agree that SCVs are plenty strong as being a worker with a utility goes.
But that has nothing to do with the strength of the MULE, and the MULE being able to repair is not particularly a powerful thing it can be doing. Again, it mines at the rate of around 4 SCVs and repairs at the same rate as 1 SCV. If you don’t specifically need it to get there fast, you are better off dropping the MULE on your mineral line and pulling workers every time.
The fact that the MULE has the option to repair things is extremely niche at best? It’s not a strong utility, so removing it would have such a negligible impact on the MULE’s strength that I can’t really imagine it making any difference - if you think Terran is too strong on the back of the MULE; this won’t change that. It’d just remove a flexibility option and having those options is good.
Transfuse is kind of weak on Hatcheries, yeah. I do wish that wasn’t as true.
The rest? Fine! This is not a problem! They are different! Hatcheries have always been easier to place down due to their lower up front cost; and the Nexus is the ‘worst’ if it gets destroyed so it has more vitals.
The regeneration is excruciatingly slow - 2.8 per second for up to 1000 shields?
do you not put creep tumors in your base? building degeneration is 3.8 per second and only while rooted for the crawlers. you can uproot them, and every other zerg building has over 750 health, so they’re not really at risk of ‘bleeding out’ - hatchery build time being 71 seconds means if they take more than like 350 damage it’s completely your fault?
also the premise is just wrong like. transfuse gets used in base defense all the time?? overlords only get killed first in attacks when they’re far forward, which happens because they’re spread out to give you warning of enemy movement so that you can get in position to. deal with the attack? ie. get the queens to where they can transfuse, get your army to slaughter them!
So how can you fix the problem of mechs basically being nerfed to the ground after the storm changes? After the update, mechs will take even more damage from storms than before and will need repairs more often, but SCVs are also vulnerable to storms. Don’t forget the main unit of mech team is tank and liberator, both of them cannot move while attack mode. If the mech team took only half damage from abilities, or more auto cast tools for mech team, that would be acceptable. The real problem is that Terran has no tools to support a mech team, no proper healing, no mobility boosts, no support abilities. All they’ve got is the SCV, which gets vaporized by storms and still costs more than MMM.
Other people have pointed this out, but the Mule’s ability to repair units is not a problem in any way, shape, or form.
Mules repair at the rate of 1 SCV and mine at the rate of 4, so using Mules for repair is wasteful. Terran does not want to use Mules for repair unless they are either desperate or they are so far ahead that they can afford to be wasteful.
No, people evaluate changes and disagree if they think that those changes will make the game worse. It just so happens that most changes have negative consequences.
I think repair is fine. Repairing a unit to full costs 25% of the unit’s total cost, and it takes about the same time as buliding the unit in the first place.
Blizzard actually tried increasing the Medivac healing rate in the past, through an upgrade in HOTS beta. They scrapped the upgrade after concluding that it just made Bio too powerful.
Posts on the forums don’t get deleted for no reason.
As a general rule, posts get deleted if they violate the code of conduct. Entire threads may also get deleted if they break down into shouting matches or most of the threads otherwise break the code of conduct.
What a queen transfuse can do? Almost nothing - so nobody use Transfuse/ Heal in base defense. Sure overlord can generate some creep but in case of attack they are firstly hit. Overseer cannot even generate creep)