So since the 12-worker challenge, one of the easiest of said challenge to roll with was obviously P2 Tychus. Now, generally I just run solo-Tychus because I’m lazy. As such, it got me thinking a bit more on the exact DPS ramp up on a single-solo-Tychus.
Mastery choice, set 2 option 1 - Tri-Outlaw Research Improvemetn +15%
Kel-Morian Ripper Round - Minus 5 armor for 2 sec.
Lone Wolf Outlaw x Number
Regular weapon upgrades up to 5
Now, I didn’t mention the Shredder Grenade related upgrades because Tychus’s sustained DPS is overall more than his ability damage (for the purpose of pushing). This is mostly due to you can’t always maximize a single grenade damage with a full circle of enemies every cast.
As such, I found that for me, the best way to approach it to “maximize” DPS:
Kel-Morian Ripper Round (Exact DPS I’m not sure, but in testing it feels more).
2nd Outlaw/First purchased outlaw.
ITC-E Triggers.
Weapon 1.
Weapon 2/Outlaw 3, whichever is faster.
The reason this is what I settled on was mostly the timing. On 12 workers, you can prioritize to have (1) upon Tychu’s spawn at 3min. The choice between (2) & (3) is actually not that different.
Sirius has higher utility to help ally, his presence in a vacuum comparison is better than ITC, but ITC is also cheaper. However, the issue is that ITC takes time. And the investment of Engineering Bay versus Gunslinger’s Hideout isn’t much different. When taking into account the importance of (1) and the distribution to income rate, getting Sirius has an overall benefit.
At this point though, ITC is generally started very shortly after Sirius. While again Lone Wolf’s additional outlaws does provide more DPS each than upgrades, it is very difficult to get that 1000/200 in time for Sam. As such, Weapon 1 is usually started. Sam (or 3rd outlaw/ 2nd purchase) actually won’t come into the picture until even after BRB research. As generally you’re approaching this mark.
The rest is fairly straight forward without much impact. Why? Because after about 10min, Amon’s overall strength start to catch up to yours much faster. This is why the initial focus and my personal interest was on this portion.
Anyway, I thought I share it, but overall it makes very little difference getting things differently. As it is really just about how output can you pump out for faster speed, in a very restricted context:
Without checking the exact calcs what you’ve said feels right. Although it’s usually best to prioritize DPS, I believe in Tychus’ case some armour may actually win out in overall value due to less downtime.
For others who don’t know, his armour are upgrades are basically worth double due to being counted after the 50% damage reduction.
Yeah, I checked it briefly against Wiki initially. The basic gist without all the numbers is that:
Each outlaw provides better DPS. This is because the presumed mastery choice in tychus’s attack speed. So any actual ‘damage’ increase against a similar ‘attack rate’, would obviously provide better DPS.
This is why the -5 armor gear is also better, of course this is an unique case in its calculation.
And also why the ITC doesn’t benefit as well because even those it’s a 25% (or 40% with mastery) modifier, it is only affecting the rate multiplicatively with the 1.3 modifier of mastery. While good, not as good as damage multiplier of outlaw.
Comparatively then, the outlaw damage modifier is bigger than weapon upgrade.
Most players underestimate upgrades for Tychus, whether you’re playing LW or not… seen so many make only 1 engineering bay.
Upgrades are what allow Tychus to scale properly into late games. And i mean irrespective of prestige. I guess that is why Tychus doesn’t max out at 3 upgrades (like every other commander) but at 5 instead.
At least 2 engineering bays is basically always mandatory. I would even say, 3 are advisable in most games… you always want ITC-triggers and big-red-button, which are 90s upgrades. Those will delay your armor upgrades, unless you have 3 ebays.
So all in all: is it worth spending 125 minerals (+some mining time) in exchange for having all armor upgrades 3 minutes earlier. If you ask me, yes it is… 125 minerals is nothing.
And I would disagree entirely. Late game is defined as after 15min in coop. Amon’s units start with +1 with many researches auto given after 10-15min, as well as +2. This means there’s no real reason to scale armor at all, especially if you finish a mission within/close to 15min.
In a game, where you’ve macro early expanded and working off of 2 base economy, you’ll have plenty to waste whatever resources you like on upgrades, 6x engineering bays if you wish, or non-essential gears should you choose.
In a game where you’re budgeting 12 worker on 1 base before 10min? That’s entirely different. By 10min (when Odin is available), you’ll have to get ITC, BRB, and weapon 1 hopefully started. That is on top of Kel-rounds and another outlaw. What that amount to is “heck of a lot mineral”. So adding even 1, let alone 2 bays is just bad management of resources.
I don’t dispute Tychus’s armor upgrades functions quite differently than other COs. For example, it provides 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 per wiki, as well as the 10% per level in HP increase. So it is far more useful than other armor upgrades.
However, is it worth getting? That’s up to your timings, your skills, and therefore your needs. If you tend to take a lot of damage then I’d say yes. In that sense, it’s no different than using Kev or even Nikara. The whole debate about why Nikara isn’t needed. The same debate actually applies to Medivacs and even armor. I can tell you that solo Tychus works perfectly fine without healz. Oops, and armor.
Let me tell you, trying to make a game with only 12 workers, and then going and picking the most braindead commander out there to do so, kindof defeats the point of a challenge does it not.
The challenge wasn’t to Tychus alone, this specific topic was just sharing some information I’ve found out. That is how to maximize the DPS, which order should you go about.
I’m not sure why you get so angry all the time. You are posting in a topic that’s not talking about “how you (Zhadoom) play Tychus”. The context in my OP was literally listed as such:
I mean feel free to ‘never talk to me’ again lol. Just know that no hard feelings from me regardless. I’m simply responding to information I disagree with. To this day, I have no idea why so many people on the forum seem to lose their mind when someone disagree with them.
His response is not toward your other comments or even about this topic.
He lamented about the fact that other Tychus in normal game didn’t try to get all the upgrades by building 2 or more engineering bays. He merely sought out an agreement with Caffeine because Caffeine understands the value of armour.
He neither agreed, disagreed or replied to you.
Surely you jest.
People disagree with each other most the time in this forum, especially in the past when there were more people.
There is also no secret organization here that colludes against you. People disagree with you just as people disagree with others. Sometimes it broke into a shouting match. Probably a couples decided they are done and not talking with each other. I know at least some hated me too and didn’t want to have anything to do with me. They just don’t publicly declare as such.
Saying that, i have to remark. I haven’t seen anyone with so many people outright declare their hostility against… as YOU.
Let me be clear not everything you argued are wrong but it really says something about your ability to communicate with other humans when you made that many people mad.
A quote is not a direct response to the person quoted. It is just a reference to what he discusses/comments about after said quote. And just because he quoted someone else, it doesn’t mean I can’t comment about it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here.
Nope, you’re the perfect example of why I say people like you are angry.
You’ve not commented or contributed to this topic of discussion. Your entire remark here is to present your resentment for me. And for what? A past discussion likely.Put it another way, let’s say I was entirely rude to Zhadoom, it is just to him and not to you. So then why are you so angry right now?
It is people like you who hold grudges then perpetuate them forever that makes discussion difficult. And not disagreements among people. As people such as you take it too personally.
+2