And protoss cant proxy to do the same? I’ve seen even proxy gateway and I thought this was only gold league strat, it was NW or GSL I dont remember
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Can a protoss proxy fly back home if it fails?
No but losing time while flying is nothing right? With Protoss you dont even have to rally, you just teleport where you want thx to Prism. Design in SC2 is ludicrous for Protoss, definitely designed for easier race, still needs some to master.
Protoss can proxy cannons, pylons and still have resource to expand somehow. know any other race? But let’s talk MULEs OP
Had to nerf adept build time just because it was possible to make an adept to kill the scv that was building the cc on low ground. Terran privilege. Can make their buildings wherever they want with impunity, while being allowed guaranteed damage to you.
Oh, the cyclone also needs 15 range and 10k instant damage, just in case an oracle shows up with big ambitions of killing 3 scvs, otherwise.
Let’s see, they reduced widow mine build time by 40%, they removed the mama core which had enough dps on a single overcharge to kill a mine before it burrowed, they merged marauder attack, they took 10hp off the adept, they nerfed all 3 spells on the oracle (which used to be the usual detector against mines), and they made protoss upgrade times longer.
So a lot of things happened.
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Dude, why the vendetta against oranges?
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25%.
The original Widow Mine build time was 40 seconds. The current build time is 30 seconds, both using editor values. LOTV (faster-speed) would show those values as 28.5 and 21.4 respectively if you round to 1 decimal place; but they are technically the same values that I listed before.
Marauders started with a merged attack. The split attack in LOTV was an over-nerf to Marauders, which is why it was reverted.
Apart from when Adepts had 180 or more health, which of those changes actually affected Widow Mines?
Adept change means that protoss has a harder time against bio, which means you can’t afford to lose as much to the mines.
Oracle revalation duration nerf is a direct nerf to protoss’ countering mines, and 2 shot on SCVs is what used to make rushing detection not a commitment.
Upgrade nerf again means mines don’t need to compensate for any protoss advantage.
Pretty sure he was talking about the early LotV, most notably Phoenix/adept era, when the marauder attack was split. If you want to go back to HotS, then that was when colossi countered everything terran had on the ground.
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So how many of these things you listed affect the power of widow mine drops? Because even after the mother ship core was removed, protoss players were still doing ‘well’ against mine drops. I don’t recall any significant negative changes towards the stalker and the observer, the main defense against mine drops.
Speaking of why do things seem so much better, why does the tank make everyone seem like a 7K MMR player? Can’t stop any of the “timing attacks.” Dude has 1 siege tank in his small army, and it’s like… I better not attack into him. Guess he gets to max out and do w/e.
They should consider removing the need to research abilities for all of the best units in the game. The neural removal, great idea. Hmm, any good units still going to need to research abilities or is that just going to be a uniquely Toss thing?
I don’t think doing “well” against something indicates balance or not.
If a unit can one shot a bunch of probes, one shot almost every gateway unit and deal insane splash damage due to the +shield damage bonus…and that unit can be dropped by fast moving medivacs, can be mass produced and is so cheap you losing a few doesn’t really matter…
That’s probably a balance issue. Just because people can pull all their workers away from a mineral line for 30 seconds doesn’t mean they didn’t take severe damage.
Very true, but widow mines, in their current state, are not broken. The amount of times I kill my own army with widow mines is baffling.
It’s cheap AoE, for sure, but its strategic AoE as well. If a mine shot doesn’t get a big hit, the mine is useless for 40 seconds. I’m not going to deny the strength of drilling claws, but by the time a terran can repeatedly drop a medivac with 4 drilling clawed mines, the protoss should already have counter options available, be it cannons or well-placed obs and stalkers. It’s not easy to hold, and there is an argument to be made that it can be extremely powerful, but that argument doesn’t hold up at the pro level as well as it does at the amateur level.
The burrow cloak change was created to help the amateur players and not the pro scene.
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Oh, I don’t talk about drilling claws. That comes later and like you and many others have pointed out, by then you SHOULD have some counters up.
I’m talking about rushed mine drops mostly.
They’re not balanced. At all. Vs Protoss. Best case scenario, you pull your probes and now can’t mine for 30 seconds. Or you throw a Zealot into them, forcing the Terran to load up and leave. You still lost mining time and a Zealot at a bare minimum. Nevermind the trick where you load up the mines, leave but drop one just out of vision and place it so rallying probes get killed.
I’m not against Widow Mines. I’m against +shield damage on the Widow Mine.
i kinda like the widow mine in theory, but i do find it broken and brain ded. imo its a combination of factor. of the ones you havent mentioned already, its cheap, very cheap. it has a weird way of not splashing ground units when blowing up an air unit in the mineral line, making it a perfect brainded defence agaisnt oracle, which it blows up in 1 shot, regardless of the fact the mines comes out 2 at a time before the oracle is out of the starport, even if proxy. it 1 shots any gate unit. it doesnt auto target the same unit (unlike every single unit in the game) which means all mines in the medvac will usually get away with 1 kill even if clumped up together, which is a guaranteed cost efficient trade against toss, but uve all seen those mass miners just clumping up 10+ mines togheter and they all hit an individual unit dealing maximum damage rather than wasting shots on overkill dmg. it has a very weird range, would be nice if it disengaged as you get out of its radius rather than having it lock on to a phoenix and throw a rocket at like 15 range. and it has a retarded splash radius. i dont mind some of those, but all of em? thats seriously brainded.
side note, dont call it a mine if its a freaking lock on rocket launcher that hides underground and blows up anything one shot without blowing itself up, cause thats not a mine, it just isnt. at this point it also kinda ruins the entire logic of units, if terrans as a race are good enough to build a tiny weapon that is so devastating like this, why arent every single unit equiped with widow mines? hellions with window mine of top, battle cruisers with 20 widow mines all around, banshees with a couple widow mines handing from the wings, cyclone with dual widowmine side weapons, you get the picture.
widow mines need to be reworked so that they arent guaranteed to trade efficiently even when anticipated properly. would also be nice if it wasnt a brainded zero apm 1 shot counter to a proxy oracle opening, or if it is, at least let the splash dmg kill scvs in the mineral line so it at least takes a minimum of effort to position it properly.
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Great post. Refreshing.
If only protoss had invisible detectors. Lets take away disruptors and then we can also take away mines
Too bad those invisible detectors are about to move at half the speed of the widow mines, and get one shot by the splash from widow mines even if the Terran doesn’t bother scanning or using their eyes.
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Can say the same for Disruptors:
IF you don’t micro, what you write is correct. BUT how comes my enemies micro against it, and you do not?
In general I’d agree with the design philosophy, but anything is true for almost any other units being allowed to do what they want in so many situations, any run byes.
Hence Blizzard invented:
Surveillance Mode: Transforms the Observer to Surveillance Mode. The Observer gains 25% wider vision, but loses the ability to move.
They are also helping you by making the Observer much closer to a permanent surveilance mode minus the benefits.