Kerrigan Has fallen to the times

Kerrigan being one of the OG commanders and was my 2nd commader I leveled in Co-op before Karax was even added, having to play her 1-15 3 times in a row to get her 3rd prestige I’ve gotta say, she could really use some love. Using some low level commanders in Brutal can be a little well… Brutal but I gotta say personally, Kerrigan feels really bad. Especially have been playing her at masteries for so long.(But even so I’ve re-levled Raynor and his was quite pleasant compared to Kerrigan and I don’t even play Raynor often)
Her army is just very generic and you don’t get any of the special upgrades to her units until her later levels. Her army is expensive and requires alot of expensive upgrades just to be some what efficient, even while spamming assimimation Aura off CD for more resources I find myself hardly even getting past 160-170 supply in games cause her units just … melt and are so cost hungry for what they do.
I mean the fact Kerrigan literally has 2 Cost down masteries should say something about that.
Curious how other people might feel though, Could Kerrigan pre-masteries use some love? whether it’s just compounding some of her upgrades into her units baseline (i.E was thinking like that +10 Zergling HP gets compounded into when you unlock raptors), or small unit buffs, or maybe drops some costs, which in the end could lead to Kerrigan getting a mastery change instead of having 2 cost down masteries.
Don’t get me wrong Kerrigan is in my top 2 for Co-op commanders, but her leveling is atrocious, and personally I’d love to see her Hydra’s get some kind of love being how much of a staple unit it is for her.

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I Think something simple like having her hero chain reaction, ability efficiency, as well as hydra ancillary carapace upgrades available at level 1 would do the job. Maybe chain reaction and ability efficiency upgrades cost twice as much, and have her level 9 cut the price down to normal

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don’t know about her being most costly than she already is without it being a direct buff

Kerrigan has some untapped potentials but her army is acceptable regardless even in low level, you will need Kerrigan/Ultras to do some tanking while Hydras behind her shoot enemies down.

You just need to brave through the lower levels (That’s what talents and levels are for).

Assimilation Aura is a wonderous ability that when used well, you will never lack resources. Make sure to use it on enemy dense places.

Chain Reaction is no.1 concern for Kerrigan for me, there are lot of things to cover up.

  1. Chain effect should deal more damage and benefit from Kerrigan Mastery
  2. Chain effect should do ‘spell’ damage rather than ‘ranged’
  3. Chain effect should contribute to Mutating Carapace like every other Kerrigan’s spells.

I say Kerrigan’s ability talents are good as they are. I agree with Hydra upgrades though, it would be much smoother if Hydralisks get all the upgrades in low level.

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Issue with low level kerrigan is she doesn’t deal enough damage to take advantage of assimilation aura, and it has a much longer cooldown without ability efficiency. When it takes 3 psi shifts to kill a wave of zealots or 4 to kill a wave of stalkers or adepts, you’re really losing a lot of time. Even when you hit level 3, you’re limited a lot by your energy

I think a flat buff to damage would be plenty. Chain reaction does 25 damage in LotV, I think that’s more than enough to make it good.

Except you don’t unlock Ultra Upgrades until level 13 and Torrasques at 14, which until then her Ultras are pretty bad, and having to split your gas for hydras ultras and 3 upgrades leaves you pretty gas starved to even get a decent amount of ultras out while they keep dying.

25 might be too strong, but to kind bounce off both the ideas here, what if chain reaction was based on a % of her weapon damage that way it scales with her damage mastery.

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Admitted that is true, however I don’t think Kerrigan should more abilities in low level even if you make the available early for sake of levelling up (and even if it does, Chain Reaction/Ability Efficiency would cost 300/300 and 400/400). That’s why I agree with you giving Hydras more edge in early talents so Kerrigan at least have more stable death ball.

Changing what I have proposed isn’t too hard.
I think it is appropriate to make Chain Reaction proportionate to attack because when it comes to mastery, Set 1 gives you a choice whether you have an edge over ground (energy) or air (attack).

They still do a pretty good job for me, and I don’t run into too much gas starvation when I mix in swarms of zerglings time to time. And I don’t make lots Ultras just few enough to protect my Hydralisks who are my main dealers (If it is Terran Machine or Protoss Reavers go for the sky).

:+1: Exactly my idea (proportionate to 25% of current attack), however I would like +5 chain effect damage with each bounce.

When levelling, if against a ground comp, Brood Lords are actually fairly decent, probably the only time they are worth using.
Air comps are a bit tougher, though mutas can work.

It is rougher because she is Zerg-based style from ladder. I feel it too lol.

My strategy for getting through the first 5 levels or so is just better control with Kerrigan. Her power is cut down significantly but still works far better than losing a good portion of units. Without hitting that critical mass of army, the economy just can’t continuously supply off of 2 base coop games.

yeh I know what you mean, basically the 3 first commanders Raynor Kerrigan and Artanis are kind of based off ladder comp styles of play, Artanis a little less so. Problem she has too, is while Both Raynor and Artanis has seen some baseline units buff of have tech upgrades that make their ladder style units work in Brutal and higher difficulties Only tweak Kerrigan has was to her mutas so glass cannon Mutas can be a thing. Meanwhile Kerrigan has full standard damage and hp pools on all her units, full standard build times only thing she has baseline reduction on is Hatchery build time. And even scaling up into later levels most of her Special unit upgrades are still not that great.

Everything Zergling related is basically a waste in brutal and higher but while leveling you need them cause she’s so gas heavy or unless you want to do a Muta/Ling comp.

Hydras, her staple unit, honestly if it wasn’t for frenzy could easily say Kerrigan has the weakest staple unit, and even with it I don’t grade it much higher just do to Survivability and attack Range, alot of newer commanders have stable units that have further attack range of even better clump while being tankier which allow for even more DPS with both factors.

Mutas, while a while back they did see some changes and got some love, they’re still ladder HP mutas and with the amount of AoE auto casts AI do gotta still be fast at splits or hit and runs, personally peeve playing vs Terrans on maps where they have science vessel.

Broodlords, Presonally I lowkey love the buffs they’ve given Broods over time, now if they just had a way to more effectively regen HP they’d be amazing as even with Cost down masteries you still run into Gas problems Fielding enough B-Lords to have Broodling front line for Hydras, while upgrading 4 diff upgrades

Annnd Ultras, not too much to say about this, especially since you unlock both ultra techs almost at the same time, upgrade cache and then Torrasques. But yeh Ladder Ultras, kinda just go splat, Once you get upgrades, feel Okay especially the self healing upgrade, but then Torrasques, with that your ultras self revive and basically replenish 1 Ultra ever few mins which is affordable, in the end Her Ultra/Torrasques walks out as the best unit in terms of what you ideally want from a unit in Co-op, Strong beefy front line, AoE, self healing and another ability to make it worth the cost, in their terms its the revive.

Lurkers. not much to say, little gas heavy but they’re great at what they do.

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It’s funny because Raynor, Kerrigan and Artanis are labeled as “for all type of players” (meaning both begginers and experienced players" - and they take some multitask skill to be played properly, except to some extent Artanis-, while Tychus and Zeratul are labeled as “for experienced players” but being easy mode for everyone.

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yeh 3 first commanders can actually be among the most micro and macro intensive, only one surpassing them is Stetman, which is probably why I don’t see people play them alot. I mean I’m sure they’re being played just not as much as other commanders that can be easier to play in co-op environment, but just something I note whenever I load into a game.

Ladder has nothing to do about it. All units except brood lords (which are similar to guardian so anyway is not very far from old style) are the ones from BW, it’s kind of style of using little enhanced old zerg guys with kerri herself. I think she don’t need any buffs nor in -15 zone nor in 15+ zone, except enhancing chain reaction scale with her basic attack (which again will improve her auto-attack mastery which is weaker than energy one but which i do really like) and maybe get attack and carapace upgrades shared with her ground army (this is related to other hero units from other commanders too).

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Kerri was already so awesome and powerful. She has little room for improvement. Nothing is lackluster about kerrigan. She really stands out on missions. Ask for what we really need in co op. More missions.

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could be lots of ways to improve comparing to the power creep of new commanders

Kerrigan is already one of the higher power commanders in co-op. With the prestige systems, she seriously won when it comes to her second and third options. Yes, her army is rather subpar, but her hero unit is the strongest single unit in co-op, outside of maybe Lone Wolf Tychus but that’s just hilariously imbalanced. She also gets a lot of utility and power with omega worms and with proper use of assimilation aura she can make up for the relative cost inefficiently of her army.

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Kerrigan is bae. I leveled up all of her Prestiges first because she’s my favorite commander, and the experience of re-leveling her three times in a row taught me that’s she’s a very powerful commander even without mastery if you pay attention and use her right.

Once you get immobilization wave and the talent that doubles the damage and range of her abilities (levels 2 and 3), she can capably handle brutal as long as you’re competent and can do damage with her while keeping her alive. Her army comes online at levels 6 (hydralisk upgrades, after which you can confidently dominate any regular brutal mission) and level 11 (mutalisk upgrades, which are a very strong alternative to hydras against certain comps once you have them available). At this point, she’s a wrecking ball and you can be full-clearing a lot of maps without toooo much problem. Omega worms at 8 and ability efficiency at 9 are very nice but not essential. Cost reductions with mastery are very nice but not essential. She has a pretty reasonable power curve, honestly, and if anything, later commanders should be tweaked, not her.

The main difference I noticed, besides longer ability cooldowns, is that you end up making way more zerglings before mastery since you float a lot of minerals. With mastery and the unit vespene cost reduction, you spend your minerals and vespene more evenly (and get more units as a result) and don’t need a mineral dump as much. You definitely have to be more efficient with your units while leveling, and I definitely messed up and got rekt several times while leveling, but I think it’s probably fair to get rekt occasionally when playing on the highest difficulty.

(All that said, it’s hilarious that it takes her until level 12 to get raptorlings instead of stupid regular zerglings. If she were released today, she would definitely have those at level 1.)

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Also started leveling Keri. She is really good, thats why I love her for just hero play. 1st game was harder than usual with basic damage, but levels 2 and 3 make the rest of leveling a breeze.