I dislike mass infestors as well. when i see them as a terran player. it means that all t3 units are useless for the most part. that means no thors or bcs. lately ive been going mines. hellbats, vikings. as silly as this army composition sounds. vikings help aginst broods and sniping obs, mines help to keep lings and banes back and hellbats go to mop up infestors. only when the count is low i transition to something else.
weve been over this - the mass raven play could wipe out entire armies in a second or less.
infestor can not.
and yet your proposed nerfs would do far more then that. youâre a terrible liar and i have no reason to trust you.
[quote=âanon79962274, post:141, topic:1467â]
It will be exactly the same even when ITâs AA attack is being reduced by armor again. Why?. Because you can spam ITâs in such large numbers and unlike auto-turrets they donât take up a big enough surface area so they can be close together.[/quote]
and yet those ITâs would be doing 20% less damage minimum.
wow. half the crap on your list would make them useless.
Explain why about each one. Or would that take too much effort?.
Zerg had weak AA? Lets see, moveable spores, Hydras, Corruptors, IT, Fungal, mass queens⌠and to a lesser extent, even Mutalisks. wth are you talking about? Z had more AA than any other race even before Vipers came out. Lets dig further shall we!!!
Hydras have high dmg, theyâre small and group together well with good range making them amazing for AA, Queens, again, even better range for AA, Corruptors, strictly AA and tanky, IT, free and massable with damage that scales with upgrades, Fungal freezes, has good damage and a long range⌠How tf did Z need additional AA? They had more reliable options than any other race before Vipers were even a thing. Lets not forget that Zerg is the only race with moveable static AA and it just so happens to be the tankiest static defense in the game. They regen, and queens can even heal them. Oh and lastly, Zerg is the only race that doesnât have a building prerequisite to build them. Zerg had the best AA options in the game. Period. Now they also have Vipers. Thatâs not over the top at allâŚ
How many games did you play on the test map? No offense, but you absolutely donât know how the game will play out after the Infestor nerf and Ghost/Carrier buffs. Weâve seen some small changes have a significant impact in the game when implemented.
The reality right now is that the Infestor is taking a significant nerf. Again no offense, but saying that itâs not enough a few hours after the changes were announced without them being tested at all is straight up dishonest. At least give those changes a shot if you want anyone to take you seriously.
Protoss 2 base all-ins are going to be nerfed and rightfully so. However that also means more Zergs will be able to get to late game to make the mass infestor deathball they like to do much more frequently.
Infestors will get nerfs in the future, simply because it will become more and more apparent how problematic massing them is against Protoss as more ZvP games go to late game.
If they donât want to nerf the Infestor, just increase Feedback range by +1. Such a simple solution to the problem.
So much of this is wrong.
First, there is in fact a building prerequisite to build static defense, although that is merely the same as for the other races.
Second, Hydras are extremely mediocre for AA because they have very mediocre dps density and they die to the capital ships they are supposed to counter, especially with spellcaster support. Hydras are decent in the midgame but in the endgame they are too expensive for the benefits they provide and lose to capital ships so they get phased out for other units.
Queens and spores are only really functional on creep. And to get creep to their side of the map takes an extremely long time by the time you can use these offenssively. Unless you want every zerg game to be defending for 30 minutes, relying on these for anti air on the offenssive is not the best idea.
Corruptors actually die to battlecruisers on equal supply thanks to yamato. They also get creamed by void rays, which any late game protoss air army that fights a zerg defending vs it with corruptors should have plenty of. Fungal does not have âgood damageâ against anything tankier than a marine. Youâd need to get off like 10 to kill any capital ship.
And talking about mutalisks when referencing anti-air simply has to be a joke. Yeah, go fight those carriers or BCs with mutas, see how it goes. Mutas only work for anti air if the opponent has a stroke or something. And even then it actually takes some cooperation from the opponent to move command or make the unit attacked by mutas not hit back for the mutas to actually work as AA.
In the end game, zergâs AA is pretty much limited to either ITs, corruptors ans spellcasters or fighting on creep. No, it is not over the top.
Nah man. The best thing about the feedback nerf is, for w/e reason, it makes people stop parroting feedback is a counter. Yo, feedback doesnât counter anything in this game. Never has. Correction: it probably has won a game against raven timing builds.
If they removed feedback and someone cared, thatâs how you spot the Silver player, more times than not. Nothing has won fewer games in the history of SC 2 than feedback. Itâs pointless and always has been.
Why would anyone even think feedback is a counter to mass infestors? What are you going to do, make 30 high templars? They could give feedback a range of 100 and it wouldnât make a difference. Iâm serious.
How someone could act like the nerf to feedback was necessary, yet buffing ghosts/emp is good/needed is beyond bat s crazy. Iâm not saying thatâs you, but Iâve seen it a lot.
And? Creep is also part of the game. You also act as if Nydus isnât a thing. Thereâs a reason we see pro Zerg players using Hydras and mass queens in late game. Its not because theyâre mediocre at best. They completely wreck Interceptors. Iâm glad you brought up BCâs though. Whens the last time you saw a late game BC pull off a victory vs a Zerg? In what, maybe a rare .5% of games played at tournament level? NP counters all T3 play for both Terran and Protoss. Serral just did it this week. He made 28 Infestors and a pack of Hydras and wrecked a fleet of golden armada with NP.
As of right now, I feel the ability that is the real problem with Infestors is the NP. IT, and Fungal are really good, but, the NP has no counter play. At least very little counter play. In BW, Dark Archons had MC and using it had a strong penalty, I think something along those lines should be considered to counter NPâs effectiveness. Its taking out T3 units with the click of a button. Thors, BCâs, Carriers, Tempests, Colossus. By nerfing NP, Z would still have all the necessary tools to deal with late game P and T.
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I think the thing mini Kevin Spacey is missing is that the changes mostly benefit Zerg. Especially the OL movement upgrade cost lowering. Every Zerg player will invest in movement speed now and will actually have better scouting than they already had. That means more Nydas harass than before. This also will open a less risky opportunity to go dropper lords. I donât think avenues for harassment have really been a problem for zerg leading up to this point. The problem is the races tool kit is too vast, not the other way around. None of this in any way changes the problems Terrans are facing in regards to Zerg. TvP isnât really the problem. I do think Kevins right about the WP nerfs being a little extreme though⌠Ever wonder if the SC dev team catch a ride to work in a van with a wheel chair lift in the back? Who comes up with this stuff?
This is an ancient life-lesson too. Goba Facility under the glorious-wise-compassionate leadership of Dr. Goba has decided to begin a study and publish the results in the following:
- How fare in everyday ourside life players of the three races. It is true that whineterrans usually are basement-dwellers that are maintained by their parents first and walfare next (Avilo way?).
Dr. BatZ, if has no pressing matters at hand can Chair the Commission and will have all the vast-resources in manpower (Protoss-power and Zerg-power) to complete the study.
The money collected afte the book-publication will be used for the improvement of the life of the bottomâŚsorryâŚbasement-dwellers.
We will keep you posted.
Overlord speed buff is nice but like usual people have to over exaggerate everything. The cost is reduced by 25/25. Think of all the stuff I can buy with savings like that!
You donât need overlord speed for Nydus harassment in the early game. The change is just about scouting. Terran and Protoss wall off immediately and the overlord is the only Zerg flying unit you will see in the early game that can go in for a scout. Terrans can scout anywhere with energy and act like they donât have the ultimate up skirt photo skills.
You shouldnât even bring dropper lords into the discussion. Itâs just grasping at straws. Itâs funny you think this patch isnât a huge nod to Terrans. Protoss nerfs make the matchup better for Zerg just as much as it does for Terran.
The Kevin Spacey comment was funny but everything else you said was pure garbage.
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Uh, dropper lords have been getting a lot of use lately dude.
Also, you dont see good terrans wasting Mules on scans. Maybe in lower leagues. Hence why you donât see tournament players scan unless they absolutely have to. Weâll see what happens but I already see what the outcome of this patch will be. Serral, Dark, Raynor, and even Scarlett dominating the tournament scene.
Saying Stim research buff would make Maru dominant in GSL is the equivalent of saying Serral will be dominant because of Overlord Speed research buff. These people are already dominant.
See? Youâre not willing the give a chance to the current changes and this is what most people here that are calling you out donât like.
You have absolutely no idea what will happen to the meta after these changes, and this also goes for me and pretty much everybody posting here. Infestors or late game in general could still need further adjustments but that is certainly not automatic, there is a possibility that the game will be fine.
Zerg can afford one more bane! Open the floodgates of tears!
Not really. The truth of that matter is the stim upgrade only sightly fixes an underperforming race while buffing OLâs offers a slight buff to an already too powerful race. I have no idea where you get those crazy ideas.
Like you just said, âtheyâre already dominatingâ. Its not because they are actually that good mate. They have race training wheels, good or not.
Protoss goes 2 base all-ins in ZvP because not only are they powerful but because Protoss doesnât want to fight Zerg in the late game because of how strong Zerg is right now with mass infestor-spore crawler usage.
So the Protoss changes are nerfing the 2 base all-ins from Protoss, which means more Zergs can survive them and tech into late game.
Sure, Serral dominates even though he âis not that goodâ.
Just looking at how he plays, its easy to see that he is on an entirely different level. The only player who comes even remotely close to challenge him at the moment is Reynor.
Also, the 21 second stim research buff is much bigger impact than 25/25 off overlords.
But hell, turtle and do nothing until there is creep at your natural, that should fix it. âCreep is part of the gameâ. If the game comes to a point where there is creep knocking on your door, either the game has gone for a long long time or the opponent had a stroke. Creep is an inevitability, but it takes time. What were you doing while the opponent made their dream composition with full energy gas heavy casters, a sea of spores and creep all throughout the map?
I Agree he is good however, after watching Innovation for a long time, you can tell he would completely wreck Serral if T wasnât so limited. He beats the other pro Zerg players even with the busted condition of the game. Imagine if there was balance in the game. The dude does flawless double and even triple pronged harass with units that require WAY, WAY, WAY more micro. Heâs on a completely different level. He is a truly talented mech Terren.