Implementing and testing coop suggestions

Co-op Missions Discussion
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I’ve been reading a lot of suggestions (mostly about Karax), and I’ve been playing with Editor for a long time to try to implement some of these suggestions and test them in real game. It wasn’t simple to understand how coop maps work, but I’ve made it this far thanks to Maguro Maps (MM) and Terin’s allied commanders speedrun mod. Here is a git repository with my mods that have suggested changes: https://github.com/tangorcraft/sc2coop-repo.

Full list of suggested changes: https://github.com/tangorcraft/sc2coop-repo/blob/master/README.md

Test map with all this and some other changes:
US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/312650
EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/219836

Also I uploaded some COOP missions, with these changes applied, to Arcade. Search “Suggestions Test”. Some changes require player to enter a command to activate.

:warning:Information down here may be outdated
:warning:See https://github.com/tangorcraft/sc2coop-repo/blob/master/README.md for up to date information

Karax bug with Chrono Boost:
second Nexus won’t cast boost on itself upon completion. I’ve made three variants to fix this bug:

  1. Normal - just fix a bug.
  2. Let Karax’s Chrono Wave affect buildings under construction.
  3. Let Karax’s Chrono Wave and Nexus’ Chrono Boost affect buildings under construction, Nexus won’t boost itself while under construction. This variant is used in test missions.

Swann Suggestion:

  • “Pulse Amplifier” will give Wraith an ability to attack while moving. Wraith can’t turn to enemy while in movement and it still require micro, since they need “Move” command to have buff applied. But it makes this buff actually useful. Old style stutter-stepping is not changed (when you need to attack specific target).
  • Added “Calldown: Extra Supplies” ability to Command Center. Made it cost 100 minerals instead of energy and have 30 seconds cool down. Main purpose of this is to give player more space to build, since using 2 SCV building supplies is more time-efficient (Supply depot base build time is 30) and minerals cost is the same.
14 Likes
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Here’s an idea. Try swapping Karax and Artanis’ capital ships and upgrades, and see how they both feel compared to how they are now.

Karax gets Purifier Tempests and gets Disintegration research, and perhaps alter Phasing Armor to include both Mirages and Tempests. See how well they perform when Tempests get bouts of invulnerability in addition to the reconstruction beam repairs with the Energizer boosts to their attack and move speeds.

Artanis gets Carriers and the Repair Drones research, giving him a means to repair his mechs, and the ability to crank out Interceptors super fast with either the temporary Warp In Haste or the permanent Ability Cooldown masteries.

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The Alarak Shield Enhancement from Soul Absorption should have a set duration in my oponion, say 8 seconds. Otherwise he could one-Shot everything with his Deflect lol.

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It took some time to finish my test map.
US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/312650
EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/219836
Used variant #3 for Chrono Boost Bug.

Added this too. Upgrades is swapped too. Karax’s Tempests is affected by Mirages’ Phasing Armor upgrade.
Artanis’ Warp In Haste don’t increase build speed of interceptors, since it is not an ability with cool down.
Not a lot changes for Artanis with Carriers. They have a little less burst damage, But repair ability can be really helpful, since it can heal structures too.
For Karax, Tempests cost a little less even without mastery. And phasing Armor gives them more durability. Also it seems Viper can’t drag Tempest if Phasing Armor is not on cooldown.

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Thanks, I look forward to testing out this and your other ideas!

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Tried out a game with Artanis: Zealot/Dragoon/Carrier. There’s a lot of high density pushing on this map and it really made Artanis-Carriers look good. Being able to push continuously with Artanis was really nice.

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I agree, after a few games, Artanis with Carriers and Karax with Tempests feels as great as I thought it would.

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Kerrigan needs some little bit of love as well

Kerrigan’s Chain Reaction upgrades doesnt seem worth it. I have 3 problems with this upgrade…

1. The attack is Weak - people says Chain Reaction adds 40 overall damage to Kerrigan’s attack but it doesn’t show much noticable power.
Why can’t the ability be set at 25% or 33% of current attack? If Kerrigan’s attack be at 60 then it can be ser to 15 or 20.
It would be nice if Chain Reaction affect Fury ability as well.

2. The attack should be spell - the ability becomes less effective at opponents with high defence points. Enemies always upgrades their armour, which means 10 damage is decreased by at least 3.

3. No Carapace Bonus
I tried this numerous times but it is confirmed that Chain Reaction yields no Carapce Bonus.

Sure, Kerrigan’s Fury and Malignant Creep drastically improves her offence but Chain Reaction feels underwhelming and doesn’t produce enough synergy.

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Kerrigan is one of (if not) the strongest solo hero to date, despite all the escalating commander powers as they get released.

While all your points are somewhat valid, you are essentially (and have continually) been asking to buff an already strong hero’s attack to be even stronger. I think it is again and again ignored/overlooked because of this very reason - she is already strong enough, so it makes little sense to buff her more.

If any one of your proposed points were to come true, it would drastically change her meta (including the balance on her mastery). She is already extremely solo-able simply by herself. Giving her crazier Chain Reaction attack damage, changing her damage to spell-type essentially boosting her damage to ignore armor, and allowing her to gain more intrinsic armor on top of her regenerating shield all makes her next to invulnerable.

So I can absolutely see all the reasons to not do any of that. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Sorry but Current flaws in Chain Reaction is something I cannot overlook.
And also I don’t think the change will make her stronger but does not make her invulnerable.

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Yeah but it would lean her to near-unkillable.

Many people and sources fail to include one of her most powerful ability, which I mentioned as her regenerating shield - mutating carapace. She has a 30% lifesteal that gives her upwards of 200 in shield. The reason she is so solo-viable is because with proper micro, Leap Strike and Psionic Shift continuously fuel this forever shield.

Comparatively, her attack (even with Chain Reaction) doesn’t give nearly as much regeneration to the shield to sustain incoming damage. So with the proposed changes, her effective damage goes up:

  1. Killing units faster, reducing damage taken over time.
  2. Dealing more damage, life steals more and regenerating more shield, sustaining her longer against already reduced damage over time from 1).
  3. The combined effect places her into a spot where with proper micro and target down key units, she can simply A-move across the map.
  4. Don’t forget, she still has her 3 extremely powerful abilities - Leap Strike, Psionic Shift, and wave deleting Immobilization Wave.

Hard to see those as flaws as oppose to intended design. For the small cost of researching Chain Reaction, she still benefits tremendously with it versus not. The alternative of not researching it, gives the player what? An extra Mutalisk and a half?

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Tangor’s done a hell of a lot of work here, and well deserves this thread to be about the discussion of what he’s done. Not about an idea for Kerrigan.

I played Karax a few times. I’m really glad you went with both Chrono Wave and Chrono Boost affecting structures under construction. This was my preferred change too, and it gives a completely justified economic boost in my view.

When I first heard the idea of probes warping structures in at a distance, I thought it was a little bizarre, would feel weird in-game, and wasn’t necessary at all. I’ve completely changed my mind now. It felt instantly natural, was tremendously useful, and made his static defence feel like a joined-up part of his kit, and a realistic tool to use for Co-op objectives, in a way I didn’t realise they didn’t, before.

I liked him having Tempests, though I’m not certain how I’d use them in real games, and if they’re better for him than his Carriers were, without something further. Disintegrate isn’t properly implemented, by the way. There’s the upgrade, but it doesn’t appear in their command card.

The other Karax changes I’m less convinced by. I’ll test Structure Cost Reduction a bit more, and the macro and cannon-build benefit is obviously huge, but it leaves his army with less mastery support when I think they needed more. I also don’t like playing a ‘static defence’ build with normal HP cannons/turrets, as they get burst down a bit too quickly.

Energisers summoning a Phase Cannon was kinda’ cool, but conflicts with the ranged warp in ability and the idea of getting all your cannons free doesn’t sit well with me. Also, I just… didn’t enjoy the micro of it so much, but it might just need practice.

No gas cost on upgrades is useful, but not gamebreaking, and it doesn’t make his army “expensive but powerful”, it makes them “expensive for no reason, but cheaper to upgrade”.

Any of the masteries or other changes I explored here interest you? (They were a bit on the ‘buff-crazy’ side, but it was a starting point.)

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But, warp haste reduces scarab build time for reavers. Incosistant, much?

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No, it does not. It’s an other mastery, that gives permanent cooldown and build time reduction (10s for interceptors reduced to 6s). Warp in Haste only work on abilities that have cooldown, it’s different from build time. Just tried this: make reaver, disable scarab auto-build, use some scarabs, wait for haste to expire, warp in another one, use scarabs on another one, enable auto-build.
Although I can try to add this effect to Warp in Haste in test map.

Fixed that. Other changes:

  • Added Mutations Safety Zones
  • Killing spawned Tyrannozor will now give a lot of biomass/essence
  • Some changes to AI behavior (bases rebuild, creep spreading)

That is what playtesting is for. After trying it myself, I think chrono construction, no gas cost on army upgrades and build range is more than enough to give Karax a significant buff.

Changing mastery is not simple, even with Karax it took a lot of time to figure out how to properly disable old mastery. I’ll look into other changes, that one change for Colossus vs disabling cloud seem interesting to look into.

1 Like
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Update:

  • Added some changes to Swann (Wraith’s Pulse Amplifier, Extra Supplies calldown).
  • Made “Superior Warp Gates” passive icon into submenu button, that shows all warp in buttons for selected buildings (Gate, Robo, Stargate).
  • Some minor changes to the Test Map (advanced AI creep spread, ultimate units shows up in later waves: Loki for terrans, Mothership for protoss, Leviathan, Brutalisk, Omegalisk for zerg). This is for Test Map only.

Also, uploaded RtK mission (random race) with suggestions changes, search “Suggestions Test” in Arcade.

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After testing Wraith changes I though that it is the same stutter-stepping with just a bit more success rate. So I remade it. Now Wraith will get ability to shoot while in movement after upgrade, so you can get buffed damage with just moving them over enemy. It still requires some micro, since “Move” command must be active for buff to apply and wraith can’t turn to face enemy while moving, so they will only shoot at enemy right in front of them.

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I always wondered before how novel it would be if Wraiths could shoot while on the move in a frontal cone ahead of them, as if strafing enemy lines, and you’ve brought that to life. I can’t wait to test it out!

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A small change to Raynor: added upgrade in Engineering Bay that allow flying Orbital Command to use Scan.
Also, uploaded terazine mission and DoN for testing.
With +5 range on build ability you can do things like this:
https://i.imgur.com/w9vWPGp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ac4vbl0.jpg

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I didn’t know you were Russian. xD

I can almost read most of that.

1 Like