If they build slow or go greedy I win or if I can get them sacrifice there economy. Where I can throw lings at them to gain lead.
If game becomes macro I can’t get around tempest. Plus storm, stalkers eat corrupters.
I would use brood lords but tempest has 14 range. Plus’s with massive bonus. I can’t think unit type that remotely effective.
Because tempest had 10 range then at least brood lords can trade armies and then there potential to out micro. P vs z seems bad
use muta against tempest, mutas obliterate them and then, you can fight stalkers off as well, cause you know they shoot down. god i swear yall never think things through then wonder why you lose matchs. yall need to go play teams and learn how to face down 3v1. then youll really learn the game alot better.
This is going to sound weird, but your biggest issue isn’t the air, it’s the ground - specifically storms.
Ultras are your counter. Stalkers don’t do well against them (but you’ll have to be wary of immortals if they have them). Kill the templar with a couple ultras, and then corruptors clean up the air. Tempest’s bonus vs massive is only vs Massive air, not massive ground units, so ultras can tank some hits from tempests as needed, and they shrug off carriers if they come into play too.
Don’t be afraid to abduct and play slow, pick chunks of the army apart with vipers as well. This ultimately comes down to how you play the engagement each time.
Ultras are such a wonky counter to lategame toss, simply due to them usually having a huge immortal count. Main reason Lurkers are used more vs Protoss, they’re not hard countered as hard as ultras are by the Protoss ground. Ultras are amazing vs Terran, vs Protoss… not so much.
They can be great in a counter attack force with 3/3 adrenal lings and nydus, however.
Your last sentence is very true though. Playing super late game vs Toss or Terran in the air is just abduct fishing and playing as patiently as possible.
Yeah; like I said, immortals are the big issue for ultras specifically, but they deal with everything else really well.
Every time I used ultras I feel stalkers do quite well sense they have bonuses against them.
Viper would have same problem as brood lords against tempest.
Problem about using mutas is they so hard countered. That you can never touch tempest since put middle of sea stalkers.
It sounds no one has answers to tempest that doesn’t have all in.
I think Zerg main problem units so gas heavy but expected to take 30 to 50% loss. Which gives Protoss and Terran huge advantage of mineral units so much power full then lings
absolute bs, mass muta ling, and micro you units better, you just need to get them to use up there storms. keep the lings hidden and use your mutas to get them to fire storms and pull out, rinse and repeat till the templars have no energy then pull everything you got on top of them. the lings will keep the stalkers busy and eat them up while the mutas destroy the air and then finish up the remain stalkers.
if you need to by time to set up for it because you scouted poorly keep attacking the protoss base killing pylons and workers, to bring there army home and keep them there. dont go for individual buildings other than dt shrine. by killing pylons your not only depowering the building so they cant be used but your destroying there supply count so they cant build additional troops or workers.
yall really need to learn how to use mutas.
Templars turn to archons and archons destroy mutas so does stalkers. Equal pop stalker wins.
Don’t fight the archons with mutas then 
If it weren’t for all PvZ being stargate openers nowadays making phoenix super easy to get to, I’d probably go muta ever single ZvP. You can pull a Protoss to pieces if they don’t have phoenix and you have muta.
thats why you kill them when you see them fuse
just gotta learn to magic box them
True, you can also do that if the numbers are right. But probes don’t shoot back.
i know probes dont shoot back, there usually my first target on attack runs, then the pylons, they end up supply blocked and cant rebuild workers unless they destroy there own army.
I’m hoping the PTR changes shake up the meta a bit, so that stargate isn’t just the default, as it does feel like Mutas have fell by the wayside a bit in the last few years, as it is now, the threat of Phoenix is just too high. In both ZvP and ZvT, they always create the most fun to watch games imo. Would much rather muta/ling games than ravager/ling into lurker games that everything seems to be nowadays.
beleive it or not i take muta against almost every protoss air unit. youll be suprised what you can do with muta if you play them right. if you find yourself with mass muta against phenix hit the protos home base, this will force the phenix to fight instead of run away and shoot like they do. carriers can be dealt with too as long as you got the upgrades and lower number carriers. also helps if you kill of the pylons to the productions stargates before takeing them on so they cant reinforce.
Yeah, I mean you can make them work, especially if you have a few infestors too, then you can just straight up fight the phoenix, I still play a lot of muta in ZvP myself.
I meant more in pro games, where it seems like mutas have gotten to a state of non-viability in ZvP.
i dont watch the pro games, too boring for my taste, id rather watch a team game any day of the week over the pros, and the same goes for watching a bunch of bronze league 1v1s, there better entertainment then most pro games.
Ok I try press on mutas but what would be best opener.
I ideally go 12 pool so can easily stop cannon rush.
12 pool drone to 14 over lord then 6 lings attack then build hatch build 6 lings and queen. Then macro or keep attacking depending on how well they defend.
You don’t need to go 12 pool to stop a cannon rush. It’s actually quite a bad response vs it, as it puts you very behind economically vs a Protoss that can just expand behind a cannon. You can hold cannon rushes with hatch first. Have your second overlord in the natural to spot for it, if you see it coming up, immediately put a drone on the probe, surround the pylon with a few drones to stop good cannon positions, if the cannons go up, 3 drones on each cannon if you can get them onto the cannons immediately. More if it’s later.
If you 12 pool Protosses, you want to be sending your lings across the map immediately to force a bunch of zealots and cause general chaos. Never use 12 pools defensively. If you’re really paranoid, just go pool first with a 16 pool.
exactly what he said. the biggest problem people have in this game is they over think everything.