In the latest RSL with Clem against Serral, Clem lost 3-1 and didn’t make a single Ghost. The first game Clem won by going mech against Zerg (probably to throw off Serral), but the next three games he went infantry and didn’t make a single Ghost even against tons of Ultralisks. Why didn’t he make Ghosts? Well because they would of died instantly to fungal+ling surrounds anyways while only tickling the Ultralisks. Instead to counter Ultralisks, Clem spent his gas on Liberators. Now I think Liberators are very overrated in TvZ even though they seemed to have a decent impact in one of the games where Serral didn’t go for mutalisks.
I think he would have been better off if he had built some BC with his infantry because they are great for a ton of annoying things in TvZ that Zerg can throw at you provided you take good care of them and have cover fire against the Corruptors, for example once Zerg gets enough mutalisks, you can’t really cost effectively defend expansions with just turrets and mines (at least not against good players with good micro like Serral). So one thing that BC’s are great at is warping to bases where there are some turrets whenever you get outmaneuvered by mutalisks. Once the threat is gone, your BC’s rejoin your infantry. Yamato is superior to Steady Targeting for taking out Ultralisks because it doesn’t depend on infantry and the BC is more survivable and can be warped away of outnumbered by Corruptors and your infantry has other stuff to deal with. Finally, BC’s are great at providing cover fire for your infantry whenever a big ball of banelings approaches because you can’t just scoot and shoot against large numbers of lings/banes. Because marines now have priority over BC’s in control groups, you don’t have to tab away and stim. The BC’s do passive damage with their lasers 100% of the time unless you focus fire down an enemy unit and the unit is out of range of the BC.
None of this means I think the matchup is balanced (Terran is actually in the crapper right now), but if you are going to argue Ghosts are not garbage at the moment, well if they were such an overpowered unit then why didn’t Clem build a single Ghost in the three games he went Bio. Ghosts would still be a pretty mediocre unit if banelings were not overpowered, but with the threat of banelings and the Ghost having the ROFL light armor tag, they really should be called Garbage Ghosts right now and I have provided the evidence.
Why didnt he build a Single bc if you think they are so good? If your counter Argument is that ghosts are bad because he didnt build one, why do you think he doesnt build a bc?
But despite that. Building a Single bc is in most cases only viable if you rush them and try to harass the zerg with it. Any Number of bcs are bad until you Reach critical mass. This Takes a lot of time. Which you dont have until super lategame.
Bcs are so incredibly bad.
Despites that, i thought you said serral quit sc2 and started zerospace?
Where did I say he quit SC2? I said he is playing Zerospace now even though it is still in Alpha. People are losing hope in this game due to the myriad of balance issues created in the last patch that are not really possible to fix unless they go back to 12 workers or change fundamental mechanics like chrono boost. And yah it is a fair point he didn’t build BC’s but my point was that he needed some counter to the Ultralisks and BC’s are great at softening them up. Your only other realistic option is Ghosts which are not really an option in my opinion due to the insane nerfs they have received lately. The “NEW GHOST” requires 50% more energy to do 21% more damage per Steady Targeting casting, had it speed nerfed (no idea what the logic was here), had its attack ruined so it is just all around terrible for DPS against everything when the Ghost used to be OK versus light units, and to top it all off lost 25 hit points and still has the god awful light armor attribute which means it instantly dies to Colossus and Banelings. The players who build them spend half of their APM just trying to keep them from getting killed because they are so slow and fragile now. In every pro game I have seen since the patch was released in TvZ, the Ghosts just get obliterated the first time they move away from the protection of a bunch of siege tanks and planetary fortresses. You could argue maybe they could be OK against Brood Lords, however most players will instead use Lurkers and Ultralisks instead or else just cheese with Swarm Hosts.
BC’s are bad if you don’t know how to use them and you have no supporting units. They are kind of like a 550 hit point 3 armor caster with good ground support to protect ground units that easily get overwhelmed be melee units since hellbats are such crap (again the light armor attribute hoses them). Ghosts should be 3 supply and have the durability of a marauder at the very least go back to 50 energy per steady targeting with the new 170 damage. Who cares about their attack which doesn’t do much other than aggro units at them anyways. They also need their speed back. Right now their cost does not even remotely justify their stats and abilities except maybe PvT because EMP is useful assuming you can keep the Ghosts from getting focus fired.
To summarize: Isen looked at top gm thinking it contained valid information. I said no, stop, the ladder gm is not trustworthy since many of the best players are missing. For example serral. I asked the rhetorical question why. Because it is known for years that many players are missing on gm ladder because they dont want to be seen (leave league) and also because laddering is not the best thing you can do for practise. The best thing you can do for practise is playing custom matches with other pros. And if the gm list is missing like 10 of the best players, its basically meaningless to draw any conclusions out of top gm list.
BCs are incredibly bad vs ultras since their primary weapon just tickles them. They have a base dmg of 8 and most likely an ultralisk will have 6 or 7 armor. Meaning they take 1 or 2 damage per hit. Ofc you can yamato them but at that point ghost snipe is cheaper, better and accessable much earlier. Meanwhile it takes zerg about 2 minutes to produce so many corrupters that you really really really dont want to make any bcs ever again. And only 30 seconds if the zerg already got a spire. BCs are too expensive and take ages to build, just to get ultra hard countered by corrupters.
BCs are bad. Full stop. They are bad, until they arent (in ultra lategame).
To actually answer your question why he didnt build ghosts:
Clems playstyle is extremely aggressive and very much “in your face”. Meaning its a veeeeery prolonged period of midgame and never actually really plays “lategame”. As you have noticed ghosts can die really really quickly, therefore you need a good defensive setup. Which is not clems playstyle. You need to be able to protect your ghosts. With liberators, with planetaries, with tanks.
Again this is not clems playstyle. He doesnt want the zerg player to breathe and get the whole map. He wants to push, to harass to outmultitask and outmicro his opponent. Thats why you didnt see ghosts.
And tbh im sorry, but i cannot understand the arrogance of a 3k terran player that thinks he knows better than clem by suggesting he just have built bcs and be fine. On top of that claiming that ghosts are weak.
BC’s do 8 damage to ground units and 5 damage to air units. BC’s with equal upgrades to Ultras with their armor upgrade included still do 4 damage a shot to BC’s whereas marines only do 2. The point is killing them with Yamato mostly, not their lasers which you want to deal with the lings and banelings. Good zerg players send all three at you at once so you can’t stand your ground with infantry (including Ghosts). Unless you have a narrow choke and a lot of marauders, there is not much you can do right now though I have found BC’s to work great at dealing with ultralisks. There is still the issue of Corruptors which you just need either Thors or mines to handle. There are different tactics to approach the problem, but BC’s are the only thing that really works. Thors can focus fire Ultras down if they have been hit with one or two Yamatos first (Yamato does 240 damage and Ultras I believe have 500 HP).
BC’s could definitely use a speed buff so they don’t get hosed so strongly by Tempests, but they are not bad units compared to the litany of actual bad units Terran has right now. Actual bad units are:
(1) Reapers - Only useful in TvT
(2) Ravens - Only useful in TvT except they can be good with Battlemech in TvZ if you get a lot of them because you can dump a bunch of turrets at an expansion and provide cover fire for your retreating cyclones that focus fire down a hatchery.
(3) Thors - Very slow with poor survivability and they don’t have warp like BC’s. Only really good for zoning air to air units and OK at killing Tempests and Brood Lords.
(4) Hellbats - Can’t do their job at countering lings light melee units because they get instantly vaporized by banelings and ultralisks or else colossus and ranged units in general.
(5) Ghosts - They used to be decent units but have been nerfed to hell thanks to whiners who don’t build units to counter them and want to just A-move with ultras for the win. They are what I call garbage ghosts now because they die long before their spells have any real impact in battles. Every time you use their abilities in battle they tend to die since Terran does not really have a viable meat shield for them and they are too slow to kite units anymore.
There is a reason you only see Battlemech and Bio for Terran against Protoss and Zerg and that is because most of the rest of their units are not practical or else are utter garbage tier.
You use ghosts for that. Ghosts. GHOSTS. Can Miro jump in. I just cant anymore. Why do you suggest building bc vs ultras with the reasoning you can yamato them. For the cost of 1 bc with yamato you can get how many ghosts with snipe?? Never mind the building time difference.
And that’s terrible DPS. It is not an effective counter.
Which is quite frankly a terrible idea. Yamato Cannons takes 2.14 seconds to cast for 240 damage. That is less than half the Ultralisk’s health, and afterwards the Battlecruisers are practically useless against them.
Battlecruisers are not an effective counter to Ultralisks. You need to spend more resources on a unit that is easily countered (Corruptors), and it doesn’t really handle the unit that you are trying to counter.
If you want spell damage, Steady-Targeting takes less time to shoot, and you can get at least 2 Ghosts for every Battlecruiser. That’s 340 damage, not 280.
Terran pretty much has the following options to deal with Ultralisks.
Tanks and Thors both work if they are properly supported or have a buffer to delay the Ultralisks from getting close. That said, you must also keep Blinding Cloud off of them.
Cyclones and Marauders both work if they are allowed to kite. They stop working when they can’t kite.
Liberators work if you focus the Ultralisks and manage to keep the Ultralisks within the target zone.
Ghosts work if they can get their casts off and if they can be protected or air-lifted afterwards.
Ghosts usually only have enough energy for one fire of Steady Targeting now. You can’t even cloak them or else all of your energy is gone and nothing is left to actually use their abilities. I could show you game after game after game of pro-players in the latest patch who build Ghosts and they literally derp around and do almost nothing now except die. At least before you could have a group of them left over after everything else died and finish off zerglings semi-efficiently, but now they just plain suck in every dimension but EMP.
They have been nerfed to oblivion and are objectively terrible units for their cost now. I have shown you examples and you ignore them and then say there is no evidence to support what I say. Even before they were super nerfed the only player who really dominated with them was Maru and that is because he has a very patient turtling style focused on maximum efficiency and winning decisive battles.
And my list is not rage bait. I explained why all of those Terran units suck and if you don’t think they suck, give me units from Protoss and Zerg which are worse than those 5 units? Every single unit for Zerg and Protoss has a use and gets used often, but those 5 units don’t get used at all in non-mirror matchups with the exception of the Ghost which is becoming rarer and rarer because the top players know it is garbage now but don’t want to publicly attack Blizzard or bring any more shade to the game because the game is literally dying now.
Then Show me a pro that used a low unit count of bcs to counter ultralisks.
Because there is no evidence. You have shown a match of percival vs rogue and percival won lategame with ghosts. Ive shown you another match where that happend which is now literally 20% of the tournament wins vs rogue as he stands 10-31 vs rogue.
Here you go again with the ad-hominem. I provided evidence with context and then you just dismiss the evidence and say there is no evidence or that the little evidence I have provided showed the opposite of what I was saying. He made Ghosts and they did little to nothing except for die and the reason he won was Rogue played sloppy that game. End of story.
Then you go to the ad-hominem when we are discussing other people’s games and not my own. You are dodging the topic and attacking me personally as well to try and win an argument on the internet. A certain group of people do this all of the time as a matter of habit and I wonder if you are one of these types of people. This kind of bad faith argumentative style just shows me you have nothing to offer and that I am right and you are wrong, otherwise you would argue in good faith.
Because i have shown you another example where ghosts clearly won the match. It was also percival vs rogue. And rogue is favored. Also that is not ad hominem.
I am not.
I asked you if you think that other people know better. Do you really think you know it all? What do you think will clem say if you tell him “hey you needed to build a bc to kill the ultralisks while you went 8 rax all in vs serral”? What do you think he will answer you? What do you think he will say that ghosts are bad and bcs are the better Alternative? Dont you think he knows better than you? He made a million with starcraft 2. How much did you do with sc2?
Are we in kindergarten? Maybe im pissed off because there were multiple people explaining to you that ghosts are good ? Even other terrans ? Even pros? Then you suggest building bcs over ghosts to counter ultralisks.
Meanwhile you claim 4 other units like reaper and hellbats or even freaking raven are bad.
I have not seen Clem build Ghosts at all lately. You could say it is just his style but he goes infantry most games and is not building them for whatever reason. In a recent series vs. Serral, he lost 3-1 and only won the first game by going mech. All of the other games he went infantry and liberators (no Ghosts). Why don’t you ask him why he doesn’t make Ghosts?
And yah you are literally resorting to ad-hominem attacks. Your logic is if you don’t make a million dollars at SC2, then your opinion does not matter and everything you say is wrong. Your argument is what is called an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. Even then you are getting it all wrong because the fact of the matter is Ghosts are not popular right now. In fact SC2 is not popular and Zerospace is unfortunately (I might play it if they got rid of the stupid heroes).
You are entitled to your opinion as am I. If you think the game is balanced and Terran casters are awesome (they are the worst by far at the moment), then I guess the people who disagree with you should vote with their feet and quit the game right? Maybe you could argue Ghosts are not Garbage but the counters to them certainly are overpowered. They die way too easily and require way too much APM relative to what they actually do. They can sort of help you standoff assaults with the protection of lots of planetaries and turrets (i.e. terran turtling) but the moment they move across the map they are dead. I don’t think you understand how much of a nerf the Ghost has received lately for no reason at all. There are plenty of very problematic units for Zerg and Protoss that need looked at before Ghosts which cost a lot of money and can’t really attack, rather they are just good for playing an attrition game so Zerg’s complained because they would just mindlessly send high gas units at a base and Ghosts would do well at neutralizing them because they are decent for defense if they are backed up by tons of static defense (planetaries and turrets). They can’t just win a game on their own like other units right now.
Have answered that already. If you go for hyper aggressive style like 8 rax all in, its an all in. Meaning there is no actual tech followup. Either he wins by outmultitasking and outmicroing his opponent or he dies. He cant afford tech. He cant afford more expansions. He needs to do pressure and damage.
No not really. But the problem is you have brought up like no argument at all why ghosts should be weak or too weak. Only because YOU say its true doesnt mean its true. I use the arguments of what pros are saying and doing because you literally dont accept ANY arguments but your own. Despite it being obvious that you arent an experienced player.
Sometimes its better to not have strong opinions when you dont have a clue about something. For example i have no clue about tennis, so i know i dont make statements concerning tennis that i invest my whole life into. Because i know i dont know enough about tennis to make such claims. And if roger federer says the complete opposite of what im claiming then maybe, JUST MAYBE, i am wrong. And i would like you to think about your arguments and your competence and assess the situation.
This is wrong. Ghosts are popular right now. You yourself posted a video of percival clapping rogue with ghosts in the lategame.
Thats why protoss players are leaving btw
Another terran player (and terran players are in general not famous for being unbiased) explained to you that ghosts are indeed good. There was a stream from heromarine recently where he explains that he doesnt think that 2 supply ghosts are okay, since its leads to terran just turtle back and massing ghosts.
I dont think that you understand the power of ghosts at all. Im not sitting here complaining about how the butchered storm.Despite how much weaker storm is right now, its still a good and useful spell. I think you underestimate how good ghosts are. They counter like 1.5 races. The whole zerg race and half of protoss.
BCs also cost 6 supply, are 400/300 to build, and have a 64 second build time. Good luck ever getting them to do anything outside of an early BC rush (which I’m pretty sure is DOA on the current patch). At +3, BCs do 11 damage.
Ghosts, comparatively, are 2 supply, have 170 damage steady targeting, that takes 1.45 seconds to cast (to yamato’s 2.14) seconds, and ghosts now do 15 flat damage.
So for the same supply (and only slightly more expensive at 450/375), you get:
3 snipes for 510 damage and better DPS against high armoured units. At +3, ghosts should be doing roughly 21 damage per auto. Meaning that they’re doing 15 damage per attack against 7 armour ultralisks. Ghosts also don’t get their damage canceled anymore, which means that unless the ghost is killed in the time it takes to channel their damage, you’re always getting the Steady Targeting shot off.
Ghosts are cheaper to produce, take less time to build, and have more damage output in both their auto attacks and their spell casting. They’re damage dealers.
BCs are not damage dealers. They’re hit-and-run units, meant to be annoying on the other side of the map where you Tac-jump them away from your opponent’s army after dropping yamato so your extremely expensive and slow to build investment doesn’t die. They’re high HP, high armour, low damage units, outside of yamato specifically.
BCs are not the answer. They have never been the answer. They will never be the answer to Ultralisks.
Ghosts are, quite literally better than they have ever been, outside of against light units specifically. They’ve got more damage against banes, lurkers, ultras, roaches, queens, corruptors and broodlords. They’re only worse against Zerglings, hydras and mutas, and the latter two they one-shot with Steady Targeting.
Good scouting unit. 2 rax reaper builds are still good in TvZ as well. Beyond the first few minutes they fall off. I’ll give you that reapers are bad after that point.
Also to some extent TvP, though it’s not common that they’re made here. Their spells are actually quite good, but the problem isn’t that they’re useless, it’s that they’re actively competing against medivac production, which you really, really don’t want to delay, which is why they’re rarely used outside of TvT and TvP.
Case in point, Clem used a raven today in TvP in the iNu Battle 19. It was cast by Wardii today. Game 2 on Old Sun Temple.
They’re anti-massive-air units with solid ground burst. They’re good units, just slow. Don’t let them get surrounded by lings and they’ll do wonders. Thor Hellbat is actually a pretty decent composition in TvZ, though they lose to lurkers.
Hellbats are specifically a mineral-dump unit who’s entire role is to absorb damage, and to kill lings. Both of which they do very well. Against banes, you do have to pre-spread, but outside of that, they’re extremely good units in a mech composition.
Mech in general isn’t particularly good against Protoss.
Are arguably the best units in the game, and you’re just straight up wrong.
And your list was wrong for reasons I explained above. Just because you think they suck doesn’t mean they actually do.
Swarm-hosts; extremely niche units who’s entire role is dedicated to breaking turtle mech, and are completely useless otherwise.
Void-rays. Not bad units, per se, but they are absolutely worse than the units you listed above with the exception of the reaper.
Adepts. Again, not terrible, but like the reaper, falls off a cliff past a certain point in the game (though the upgrade buff might help with this).
You… haven’t though. Like at all.
This is a false equivalence falacy. He didn’t say “everything you said is wrong and your opinion doesn’t matter” - he asked if you know better than clem.
As a side note, your opinion doesn’t matter Because everything you have said so far has been wrong. For so, so, so many reasons, some of which I’ve already explained.
Sure, that’s never been in dispute. You’re allowed to have an opinion.
Just know your opinion contradicts reality, and is therefore wrong.
Again, wrong.
What they actually do is kill things with expediency. Though I will say that they do require a fair bit of APM to control; that at least, is true.
Unfortunately, this is simply how Terran’s late-game goes; it comes down to the quadrant problem. The nature of Terran’s production and the fact that their units are generally slower than the other races to reposition means that once you get to a certain stage of the game - generally past a 4th base - taking those bases becomes extremely difficult, and difficult to defend. It’s a big part of the reason why we see so many CCs and PF walls; because they create choke-points to help defend those expansions more effectively, as they tend to be more open and are nearly impossible to hold without doing so. That’s not a case of “terran units are bad”, that’s entirely a function of how the race as a whole is designed.
They lost damage on their anti-light attack to gain damage against literally everything else. Steady targeting is much stronger overall, dealing more damage and being uncancellable, even with the energy cost increase. They also had a range increase as well, and are, once again, two supply. Even accounting for the fact that they’re back at 100 hp and are now light units - which, IMO, they should always have been - they’re still stronger than they used to be.
It doesn’t matter who you are in SC2 - bronze or pro-gamer. You DON”T build BCs to counter ultras. Period. I am d2 terran and throughout my entire SC2 career i’ve never build a single BC to counter ultras for millions of reasons - too expensive, takes forever to produce, too slow movement (even with tac-jump), too easily countered by corruptors alone and if you add infestors in the mix then they can kill your BCs probably without even losing more than few units. They simply don’t work. Honestly that is the dumbest idea i’ve read on this forum so far. Libs, ghosts, thors do better against ultras than BCs (even yamato isn’t that great because you need three shots to kill 1 ultra which in my opinion is terrible even if it’s cooldown based ability that costs no money)
If you wanna use ghosts against ultras you have to provide static support (tanks, mines, turrets, libs, PFs) otherwise they just evaporate in the open.
I have played this game off and on for 20 years. Very few people playing SC2 are noobs so needing someone to explain to me “WHY GHOSTS ARE GOOD” when I explained why they are bad doesn’t really add to the discussion. So far it looks like Terran is getting destroyed by lesser Zerg’s and Protoss in the tournaments and the games when players go mech or at least bio without the use of Ghosts they do better. In fact, I have yet to see a game where the Ghosts were not just a liability. If you can’t see in the game with Percival playing that the Ghosts killed very few units and ran halfway across the map so as not to get killed as an example of the functional problems of the Ghost right now (high energy usage for a single damage spell while EMP is AoE). Siege tanks obviously don’t shoot up, but on the ground they effectively do about the same amount of damage as Steady Targeting plus splash damage. Obviously siege tanks are a different type of unit, but 12 siege tanks will actually kill lings and banelings pretty well while Ghosts really are a non-factor now with the nerf to Steady Targeting by increasing its energy usage by 50% which is huge and if you can’t admit that the Ghost was uber nerfed in recent patches, then you probably somehow think that having their damage reduced from 10+10 light damage to 15+0 light damage is a buff somehow even though Ghosts do terrible DPS anyways. You could at least kite lings before and now you can’t even run from banes due to a speed nerf as well.
Ghosts should be good units, but right now they are a liability and waste of resources in TvZ. They are obviously just as useful as before for EMP in TvP but I don’t see how the following recent changes make them “better”:
(1) Had their speed reduced so they lag far behind marines and marauders now when running away.
(2) Had the energy cost increased 50% for Steady Targeting for a 21% increase in damage against Zerg and Terran and a 0% increase in damage against Protoss (assuming shield damage occurs).
(3) Had their range increased which is good but had their light damage bonus removed while having their base damage increased. In the PTR, the 20 base damage Ghost was very good though arguably too strong for a 7 range 3 supply caster unit just as it would be if Sentries did that amount of raw damage. Unfortunately, the previous attack was superior because Ghosts were good at keeping lings and zealots off of your Marauders when using their attack, but now the attack is just mediocre all around.
(4) Ghosts recently had 100 health and no armor attribute. Then their health was increased to 125 and they were given the light armor attribute which was a huge nerf because now they died extra easily to banelings and other light damage bonus units such as Colossus. Then in 5.0.16 their health was again nerfed down to 100 while keeping the light armor attribute which in absolute terms is both a nerf in health and armor type.
(5) Ghosts had their supply reduced to 2 because if Infestors and Templar are 2 supply then obviously it makes sense for Ghosts to be 2 supply, however they are just way too expensive to justify their cost. For what they actually do, Ghosts should be more like a 125/100 cost unit, not a 150/125 unit. Reduce the price and then they will be fine for a 2 supply unit. If they are to remain at 150/125 then they should be 3 supply and have their spells improved and their health increased back to 125 and the light armor tag eliminated.
Ghosts used to counter ultras, but with the nerf to steady targeting (50% energy increase so you can only have 2 possible total snipes instead of 4) as well as their problems with survivability to bane/ling, BC Yamato just works better now though you have to take care in protecting your BC’s just like you have to take care in protecting your Ghosts. Ghosts used to do the job but now they don’t and one reason Terran’s tend to get mauled once Ultras come out regardless of whether they have invested in Ghosts or not. BC’s are not intended to be a counter to Ultras with Yamato, but functionally it does the same thing as Steady Targeting and BC’s don’t get run over by Ultras. You do need other units to zone out air to air units like Corruptors to protect the BC’s, but the BC’s if a zerg send 8 Ultras and I have 8 BC’s which are the same supply cost, the BC’s will kill them quickly and then you can warp them to safety if a bunch of Corruptor are around.
Have you ever actually tried to do this? because Yamato does less than half the health of an ultralisk, leaving you with a measly 3 damage per shot to kill the thing. It takes about 14 seconds for a battlecruiser to kill an ultralisk post yamato on even upgrades, easily long enough for them to do whatever damage they were going to do.
And yet, you continue to actively ignore the parts that make them good in the first place, in favour of screaming “these are nerfs therefore bad!” which is objectively wrong. The nerfs were needed to directly offset the massive increase in power that the ghost received (particularly in TvZ), and they are, frankly more than justified - yes, even though banes now 3-tap them, because they hard counter every high-tech zerg unit. And even then, Ghosts actually deal with banes better than they used to because of the damage change buff to their auto attack, and we can both agree that a flat 20 damage to all units was far, far to strong (you’ve already said it was):
That we saw a supply reduction back to two again is genuinely surprising, because it was very strong as it was.
I won’t say it’s a buff in TvP, because it’s definitely not, but TvP is a very different matchup. Colossus taking 1 less swipe to kill them is definitely a nerf. I don’t necessarily think they needed the nerf here, but the range increase (so they stay behind marauders now) and the damage increase against everything that isn’t light, both directly offset this.
For comparison:
Previously, Ghosts did more damage to:
Lings, Hydras, mutas, locusts, larvae, drones/probes/scvs, zealots, adepts, sentries, HTs, DTs, Phoenix, interceptors and observers.
Ghosts do more damage against:
Banes, lurkers, broodlords, ultralisks, corruptors, roaches, ravagers, overlords, overseers, queens, vipers, infestors, stalkers, archons, immortals, colossus, disruptor, void ray, carrier, tempest, oracle, warp prism, and literally every building.
So overall, their damage output is better against 22 more units than it used to be at 10(+10 vs light) on 5.0.15, and marginally less damage against 14 units.
That’s not including the fact that they do more damage to every single building, and it’s not including any Terran unit (since the ghost is rarely used in TvT, I didn’t bother counting here).
The speed nerf is marginal (going from 3.94 to 3.85) which still makes it faster than bio (until it’s stimmed, where it was already slower anyway).
They’re really not. They’re very, very much worth their cost and stats.
