I’m a random Grandmaster so this comes from no Bias towards a single race.
Zerg is blatantly broken, and I’m not really convinced it’s due to the unit interactions. I think it’s more of a map pool issue. There are far too many maps in the pool that are too big, and on top of the maps being too big there are way too many attack paths for run bys.
If you don’t want to nerf zerg queens/creep then you’re going to have to change the maps to cater more towards T and P so that you don’t have such a lop-sided matches. It’s totally absurd in my mind that the maps have gotten to where they are, but here’s the bottom line:
Either nerf queens in some way, or map the maps smaller.
That’s fine, and probably needs to be part of the game. Right now though, most if not all maps are hard cartered to zerg, and have been since LOTV launch.
This needs to be fixed, I’d really rather not watch Zerg dominate hysterically for the last 3 years that SC2 has left in it.
Couldn’t have said it better. Queens and everything they entail (catch-all early defense, injects, creep) is the reason why Zerg is so robust at the pro level. It’s not a matter of unit interactions. It’s a matter of Zergs economy growing too quickly while at the same time having a much easier time to defend their bases than the other 2 races.
First thing we must demand from map makers is to move stupid overlord pillars from the natural to the third. If Zerg wants free vision of opponents base divoid of risk from the very start of the game they are welcome to use maphacks. There’s no reason to hardcode this as a feature in every single map.
pervert pillars are definitely a problem. zerg almost never gets blind sided by anything now due to the free vision.
even still, I think if they removed the pervert pillars you’d still have ov speed opens that would do the same thing, negate all aggro drone aggression just because the maps are too big.
i spend a lot of time watching ladder streams such as stats, innvoation, ty, forgg, and others.
i think im good enough at the game to discern that it’s clearly a problem in many, many scenarios.
the ZvX matchup is and always has been defined by being able to aggro zerg ECO and moving on from there.
because this element of the game has been removed entirely, not only am I seeing regularly the strength of zerg, i’m also experiencing it in my own games.
my conclusion thus far is that zerg players in general are playing at much lower skill cap than that of T and P, and I believe the problem resides in the map pool mainly.
have to get waste time getting tech to do it. or lift building. pillars are a cancer and should not be a part of every map. Zerg already had vision on halg of thr map do yo creep. how much more advantages do they need.
Hm, I got a feeling that its lack of comeback mechanic for Terran and Protoss (less so) vs Zerg…
If your initial harass/push (or one of the follow-up pushes) fails Zerg economy simply goes out of hand and Zerg can kill you really with anything.
In TvP for example there are several power spikes for both Terran and Protoss that can allow you to get back in the game by having really good engagement.
That’s how match feels for me (Diamond Terran and plat toss/zerg).
It takes 30 seconds to build a Viking plus several more seconds for Viking to kill it, thus you have to delay your push by 40 seconds (which is HUGE normally builds are optimized to the single seconds!) if you don’t want Zerg to know when you are moving out of the base plus you have a useless Viking that can’t even kill a Queen and your opponent now have an idea what kind of build you have.
Alternatively you can lift your Barracks and fly toward the spire but that means you will miss at least 2 production cycles on Barracks which is big and will make your push significantly weaker.
I do always build Vikikng in TvZ though as denying opponent vision is very important, but that forces me into just a few builds.
LOL I come to the point where I have to defend Protoss )
Terran have 2 main power spikes in TvP match-up: first when Terran have built Vikings and Ghosts in significant numbers and your opponent is on Colossus-Chargelot-Storm (or sometimes even just Archon!) and second when you have mass Libs with range upgrade and Protoss haven’t switched to Sky yet.
But lets not talk about TvP in this topic, its about ZvX
ZvX is also broken. the design of this game is broken. asymetrical balance is awesome when down right. this game does everthing wrong. There are things in this game that simply should not be in it. If they cant balance 3 units what makes you think they can balance 10. thats what everyone complains about this game.
We all want it to be something else but it is trash. 3 more months before I retire this game. They way they ruined SC name is sad. but blizzard isnt the first developers that ruined a franchise. EA. did it to nba live and madden 343 is doing it to halo. It happens when people run out of ideas. or incompetent
I play a lot of 2v2, and Zerg in general is pretty weak particularly on maps that aren’t enormous and when when given a third base thats not holdable because of how long it takes to connect creep to the thirds you start to see why LoTV maps are the way they are in 1v1.
While I don’t think 1v1 should be using the same design as 2v2 maps, one thing that sticks out playing at a decently high level is that the current map pool for 1v1 Zerg is too big, and I think we’d have much better playing field if they toned down the size of the maps in 1v1.
You guys may be on to something. smaller maps could fix a lot of issues with the game. Less overall mineral patches could be good as well. For example. limiting both sides to 4 bases and then put 1 that is in a hard to defend location.
this would limit the mass BCs. Carriers, lurkers. etc etc etc.
and if you are going for a Mass X composition you better make it work because a tech switch would be rather difficult unless you can secure that 5 and 6th base which should be difficult to do.
I bet P wouldn’t print Zs if they knew it would cost them tech or resources are limited. Also could bring that BW 1:1 feeling back. And if you want to mass X and fast tech switch go play fastest. or BGH
This game leaves so much to be desired. and its 1000 small things. death by 1000 cuts. If they fixed the smallest of things this game would be so much better.\
As it is not I most likely will never play this game again once the new consoles come out. I am just waiting
Speaking of map pool, all current maps have wide open third that makes it very easy to hold for Zerg and very hard to hold for Terran/Protoss.
Maybe that’s the root cause of the problem, I’m not sure.
But regarding TvZ I’m certain that lack of efficient counter against ling-bane is the problem. E.g. imagine if Terran had something like hellbat but without “light” tag but with stim and that shares upgrades with the rest of bio. It would’ve been completely different game.
I’m seeing like 7-10 depos in 1 wall in a lot of the maps, which is ludacris because how deadly run bys are, and how long pushes can be delayed by the map ( not the player ) it turns the game into the inability to make reasonable pushes.
The game gets to that general imbalance due to zerg eco going unchecked, and a lot of times even if the line is damaged they’re recovering way too fast because of the investment to keep and hold additional bases after pressure, and travel time between bases to parade march.