Do NOT buff adepts hoping it will change anything in relation to PvZ or PvT it wont

General Discussion
1

Adepts have been a misguided rocket for ages now.

Added to overlap with the zealots ability to tank.

Yet also cost gas for some unknown reason apart from the fact that they have range.

Adepts are one of the least microable units protoss has. The only reason why they are used is because of early scouting/early harrass. And allinning with glaives FOR A REASON.

Adepts are terrible versus terran. MMM eats adepts. Ghost emp wrecks adepts. mines eat adepts. Basically anything terran has counters the adept. Even a supply depot thats raised stops adepts! Thats why you dont see adepts ever in PvT.

They are the least cost efficient unit protoss has. Due to its inability to micro

Terrans want to see adepts buffed because they will cream adepts for days with the many tools they have at there disposal. Yet adept users will not be able to do anything versus the extremely mobile MMM.

While under the veil of ‘but your adepts got buffed so protoss is fine’

Vs Z they only have a purpose in allinning and doing warpprism drone harras due to 2 shotting workers. Thats it.

Adepts are good versus: workers.

Adepts are bad versus: walls, marauders, marines, ghost, tanks, mines, banshee, cyclone, hellion, bc, scv, roaches, mass ling early-late game, massed hydras, lurkers, muta, vipers, infester, swarmhost, nydus… basically anything but probes and drones.

Buffing adepts will only cause protoss to be forced to adept allin every game. Wich is terrible game design.

3 Likes
2

That is false. Adepts were added to give Protoss an anti-light core unit and it originally had splash damage which is why the fire rate is so abysmal.

Shade micro says other wise.

Adepts are good vs all Light ground units.

That logic is completely terrible and shows you really don’t play Protoss at all or remember back when Adepts were really good(so good they had to be nerfed, and why they are rarely seen now).

Making Adepts better as a core unit or core unit option = Protoss will all-in more?.

Nonsensical.

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The fire rate is so abysymal because protosses kept allinning with adepts from the getgo, trading with bio. due to its absurd DPS vs bio. Wich got butchered to 33% of what it used to be.

They used to have a +50 shield upgrade to actually become tankier instead of the 45% attack speed bonus they have now.

Hp got shaved and damage got reduced.

shade ‘micro’ doesnt exist. The only part where you ‘micro’ is where you cancel the shade or keep it going. the decision where its better to have them at. Thats not actively microing. And wont do anything in the midst of a CORE ARMY fight.

Patch after patch blizzard added 10 hp and removed 10 hp.

Adepts used to have 80/60, then increased to 90/90. back and forth and back and forth.

Eventually reaching the current 70/70

Giving or taking 10 shields or HP wont change anything.

And adepts are terrible versus light ground units.

Marines need 3 shots before they die. Same with hellions.

even scv need to be 3 shot. and with a cooldown of 1.6. current adepts die to a clump of marines. that are microed. due to 4 range of the adept.

1 Like
4

https: //liquipedia. net/starcraft2/Adept

Also you do know that Adepts get +2 damage to the vs light per attack upgrade right?.

Adepts at +3 attack do 28 damage vs light. With 0 attack upgrades they do 22 vs light.

5

Try marines vs. adepts and tell me how that goes for you.

For that matter, put a clumped ball of 12 glaived adepts against equal cost of zerglings, ZERGLINGS, the melee light units, and the lings will win. That’s sad.

2 Likes
6

Fights aren’t pure monobattles and what about upgrades?.

Adepts at +1 attack can 2 shot marines and zerglings. Adepts at +2 attack can 2 shot +3 armor marines and zerglings. Adepts at +3 attack can 2 shot combat shield upgraded marines.

7

You realise there is literally no use for an adept to do 28 damage versus light at that stage when protoss is forced into AoE regardless.

Marauders, ghost, vikings, adepts do literally NOTHING against them. they cant shoot up AND they cost gas wich cuts into your lategame tech units.

Added to that a ball of marines WHIPE adepts cost for cost with high army counts.

medivacs healing marines STILL TAKE 3 SHOTS FOR AN ADEPT TO KILL THEM!!

adepts lategame are pure useless.

4 Likes
8

Not with support.

It does matter when it comes to smaller fights, harassments and shots to kill vs light units.

That’s true for many units.

Stalkers cost more gas and minerals, yet that doesn’t slow down the late game tech unit production now does it?.

It would make a world of difference if they did.

Not entirely, but they could use a buff or two but done in such a way that it doesn’t make all-ins stronger.

9

EvilGoba is still active on the forums, I’ve noticed he likes every post this ErazorZ guy and that BerserkSword guy does.

Really makes you think.

10

Zerglings are an exception. Adepts also start to lose against Marines in large fights after the Marines are upgraded.

Since the Adept’s shot is balanced at around killing workers (damage to two-shot, but a long attack rate), it is extremely bad against Zerglings.

To be fair, because of the shade gimmick, and the way that the Adept is balanced, most buffs would in fact strengthen early aggression and cheese tactics without making the Adept a valid core unit. You would need to put the buffs in an upgrade to keep them out of rushes and possibly tweak the Adept’s cooldown, damage, and shade quite a bit.

Zerglings have extremely high DPS and mobility so it is not that surprising. They will beat most units that don’t have a very efficient splash or an attack that is very efficient against squishy units.

For comparison, Zerglings regularly beat Hellions unless the Hellions are in huge swarms; and it only took about 5 cracklings or so to kill an Archon in Brood War.

Adepts can never two-shot combat-shield Marines if the Terran player keeps up on upgrades.

The Adept’s damage upgrades also mean absolutely nothing against Zerglings, since they never change the number of hits needed to kill a Zergling and they never make the Adept’s missile and cooldown more efficient.

11

I would gladly abandon the shade entirely if it meant the adept could stand and fight actual army units. We already have the stalker, we didn’t and still don’t need a second gateway unit that prioritizes mobility over raw killing power.

4 Likes
12

Adepts at +0 can 2 shot 3/3 lings. It’s always a 2 shot no matter what. Doesn’t stop lings from obliterating adepts.

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To be fair, the Templar archives and the robo are supposed to provide your raw killing power, the gateway is supposed to give protoss their incredible mobility that nobody seems to remember about.

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The current itteration of adept is like a protoss reaper. We need it to scout early to see what kind of builds the enemy is doing.

For instance seeing how many drones are on the natural mineral lines of zerg to see an incomming ling allin.

Vs T to shade up the ramp to see what tech he is building.

The current adept is exacly like the current reaper, only has higher base attack and lower mobility (due to cliff jumping)

The high shields work as a reapers auto heal.

2 Likes
15

Nobody uses gateway units for mobility because they cant do anything besides worker harass with just mobility, and every time we do that we get nerfed into the ground. Its the same design problem as the reaper.

3 Likes
16

I know some buffs that can be done to the Adept that wouldn’t change it’s early game or all-in power, but would make it more useful outside of it. No upgrades required.

Adepts used to do splash damage and it’s why the weapon is named how it’s nammed.

Both the Reaper and the Adept need to get buffs to be more viable in the mid-late game stages.

17

I laughed and cried at that statement.

18

Zealots say hi. Blink says hi. The warp prism says hi. Even DT blink, that also says hi. And then sentry, while not extremely mobile, makes enemies much less mobile, and has hallucinated Phoenix scouts.

Are you going for the mineral line with these? Yeah, to an extent. But on the front line, these units can function as military grade, not terrorist toys, they just need to play off their mobility to let protoss grow out of control. Thus the economy comlaints: it’s actually the mobility of gateway units people are complaining about they just don’t realize it.

1 Like
19

Just no. Protoss has never had any mobility in its core army. The entire problem with protoss during WoL -> hots was to ‘solve’ the deathball protoss. Units interacting with other units in such a way that it was favourable for the protoss to clump his army, they all have approx the same mobility.

Zealots are not fast units at all lmfao. They are the most basic of basic units there are. I get it why you think they are. Charge. But charge doesnt activate out of combat.

Have you ever tried to defend your base after youve just warped in units as a protoss? I suspect not.

I remember the times back in hots when i warped in my zealots in my natural to amass an army, and then get doom dropped by 4 medivacs. Those 4 medivacs automatically killed all my tech, my nexus AND my probes before the first zealot came close.

3 Likes
20

Sure, that’s why protoss regularly fight mid and late game terran and zerg armies with just gateway units.

Oh wait, they dont. Super early game skirmishes can go in their favor, but as soon as some upgrades come online, you need either a massive numerical/investment advantage or high tech units to win fights. They simply don’t have the killing power to dance around enemy armies while actually slowing them down meaningfully unless you throw in some other disparity in their favor as well.

Also, warp prisms aren’t gateway units.

3 Likes