Disruptor = balance revolves around 1 unit

I watch games where disruptor shots kill an entire Terran army and, a minute later, the Toss still struggles to beat the Terran’s low tech army.

It’s all-around depressing. It’s clear that Toss is a pathetic race that is propped up by the ultimate crutch, which is the disruptor. The reasoning for why Toss units had to be weak, in the past, was warp gate; ie., if a guy can warp units in, anywhere on the map, then obv they need to be weaker than traditional spawning units.

Toss has been weak for years now, yet they still find ways to get the most seemingly random nerfs, patch after patch. It begs the question, in a similar fashion as warp gate did: how weak do Toss units need to be for compositions with disruptors to not be overpowered?

How on earth do you balance a race that can constantly nuke your ground army with a 150/150 mobile unit + can warp in units anywhere?

It’s really bad design, as is. Toss units have to be pathetic, in part to the disruptor. Meanwhile, Toss has no good options vs air units. There is nothing even remotely close to a disruptor equivalent against air. Air units vs Toss guarantees you can beat people 1k MMR above you, and not even have it be a fluke.

As I mentioned the other day, it’s beyond apparent/obvious that there needs to be a limit to how many disruptors you can make. If a person can play more than 5 P vs Ps without realizing this truth, then they’re a disruptor abuser to the max.

I think people need to admit how much better of a game Broodwar is, and at this rate, will always be. They’re trying to have the disruptor be SC 2’s version of the reaver.

The reaver was not a unit you could mass. And if you did, there was surely no such thing as low risk, little strategy requirement mass reaver strat.

The reaver was very expensive, when factoring in every scarab costs minerals, and you needed a shuttle to transport them, if you wanted them to fight with your army.

What I’m getting at is… It’s clear that the BW team was a lot smarter than SC 2’s team, and they actually realized how f’ing stupid it would be to have a version of the reaver that is like the disruptor.

What they managed to do was effectively put a cap on how many reavers you can have, which kept the game balanced and enjoyable – not oppressive and not FORCING your whole game plan to revolve around the inclusion/synergy with this one unit.

When one unit can kill anything and everything, and all of your other units struggle to even put a scratch into a single unit… the power of a race is way too centralized in one unit. Disruptors in mass are as oppressive as broodlord infestor is, and Toss would become the new Zerg if their other units were given similar strength.

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Can you blame us? Have you tried to kill bio with Storm that is actively healed by Medevacs?, Can you counter mech with Storm, Queens and Roaches? Only two units are not junk in Protoss arsenal: Disruptor and Phoenix (Immortal is too expensive now and has less cost/effectivity than the Disruptor).
Our rest of the units are expensive junk and still loose in a fight resource-wise.

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Well, the colossus was the crutch that made protoss be able to deal some damage, while everything else was trash.

But whiners cried it was too a-move friendly so it got nerfed to sh1t, while everything else is trash still.

The obvious solution is to introduce another robo unit that does the same job, but to keep the whine at bay they added an annoying all or nothing mechanic to its use.

LEL

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It’s absolutely f’ing ridiculous how bad Toss units are to cost. Even the units that have NO WARP IN ABILITY are balanced as is they have… teleport to anywhere on the map, yamato, and can shoot while moving.

I’m pretty sure that’s why the tempest does zero DPS. It simply has too many abilities…

It’s so depressing playing this game, because it shows you just how big of an impact balance actually has and just how bad people can be at balancing a game.

It just makes you feel like you can’t take ANY credit for winning or losing. You can’t even take credit for winning P vs P if you massed disruptors, cause the other guy could have out played you in every way possible, except he tried playing without the ability to nuke your army.

I just can’t believe this game got to be THIS bad. How many years in a row does Toss have to be the lagging race before they actually redesign the race to be better and more SENSIBLE instead of just NERFING the race? Like wt f?

I have got to be taking crazy pills to play this game. Is there anyone that thinks a Toss unit is good/strong? If so, please talk about it and elaborate. I’ve played a lot of SC before, be it BW or SC 2, and I’ve never seen anything like this.

Protoss in SC 2 reminds me of slow hydras in WoL, but every single Toss unit is the equivalent of that. Give me a break. This is ridiculous.

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https://streamable.com/nuwhi

You can’t beat mass queen, and you expect to beat terran bio?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgfiSzCy1o

Last I checked, queens counter every single air unit cause their anti air would be soooooo pitiful if that wasn’t the case.

If only Toss had the same level of story tellers and totally impartial balance members to tell it to.

No one should even play another game until they go to a unit tester and try out max tempests vs any number of queens and see what happens. Yeah, every Toss unit is a specialist. Specializes in sucking the you know what.

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You know what queens don’t counter? Disruptors. In fact, disruptors are THE hard counter of hard counters to queens since to beat disruptors you need fast and mobile units that can dodge disruptor shots, but queens off of creep are THE SLOWEST GROUND UNITS IN THE GAME.

If you spent even 1% of the time you spend coming up with reasons why your loss wasn’t your fault to, instead, figure out how you lost, you’d gain 1000 mmr easily. There is NO WAY you are going to beat terran bio with disruptors if you can’t beat mass queens with disruptors.

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How long into the game can you start massing queens as opposed to disruptors? Small map. 100 queens vs a couple disruptors, wonder what wins. Oh, that’s right… you shared the same stupid clip for the 1 billionth time to remind everyone but yourself.

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Troll post. WE al lknow that toss is heavily favored in PvT and blizz refuses to fix the 2 main issues. well the decided to delay one of them at least (zeals) no mention of the other (eco)

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Don’t worry. I’ve heard the same story since WoL, and Toss can’t ever go a patch without a nerf. Before long, you will be saying “we all know that facing units without any weapons is OP. One game, it took me longer than I’d like to have won the fight. My time is precious. Blizzard please.”

If it were up to me, I’d nerf the zealot cause could give a f less at this point. I’ve been conditioned to be like everyone else. Seriously. If Toss ever kills a unit or wins a game, I feel like a travesty has happened. I wish I were joking. Like being raised in the KK K.

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Its not that toss wins the game. PvT is a frustration match up for terrans, even when its a win the match was frustrating. toss is ahead from the beginning of the match up. and if all else fail mineral dump 20 zeals and just “A” move terran… the eco and Zeals are the number 1 reason that the match up is heavily favored Toss. I don’t want to nerf toss into oblivion. I want an equal match up from the start.

Zeal armies crush mech and for bio. at the same time providing the perfect meat shield win facing bio so other units can clean up everything else. and then they have this huge eco advantage from the start

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LUL LUL LUL

Amagu Amagu Amagu.

…inv protiss sni…

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Guess what other race is always “ahead” vs both races in eco? Zerg. How about whining about that. Let me guess, it doesn’t matter cuase Zerg units are weak.

I totally can’t freaking relate with having weak units. My god. If only you could convince me any more with that parrot line. Maybe you could mention how your race has mules to help negate another race being up a base, while ignoring that it’s pretty easy to kill a greedy Toss with a tank all-in.

Either way, it sounds really tough. Any day now, a Toss might crack the top 9 in the world. Imagine how broken this game would be if a Toss player could actually be a top player. Rather not even think about such grave imbalances.

Insert “Toss dude won a series one time and it confirmed why I lost all my games.”

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Every time there is a mention of making the match up even or balanced… there is always some toss player advocating for their continued advantages… I would too if I was a toss player…

Then again I have been practicing with toss more and more…thinking of making a permanent change

Maybe you should’ve scouted and instead of making 10 void rays made 10 disruptors? Obvious problems in your gameplay (obvious to anyone but you!).

Maybe I should have scouted and made units that are even worse vs queens. Maybe so. Thanks for pro tip.

If you can reach a higher level with your Toss than your Terran, you’d deserve a statue just as much as Serral would.

Zerg is ahead as well but you know what… That match up is fun and is winnable for terran. Playing against toss. it doesn’t feel winnable until toss says gg and they usually don’t say it until their last nexus is gone.

I am tired of toss players. going cannon rush. rush oracle, rush 3rd nexus and are completely safe doing it against terran. Even when they fail a rush they keep playing as nothing happened… and this is b/c of their eco.

Zerg cant rush and have this huge eco advantage at the same time and not be punished. but guess who can.

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We’ll see… the highest I got with terran was diamond 2… if I get diamond 1 or maybe even masters 3 with toss ill consider that a success

All one needs to read. I agree with you, though, there’s nothing fun about Toss. I can’t stand playing vs this race, either. Even in a mirror matchup, it’s a free win unless the guy masses disruptors. And if he does make disruptors, it’s like playing vs the “totally fun to play against broodlord, infestor.”

Quit with the b s man. Toss hasn’t led a single freaking period in the entire history of LotV. Last balance period P vs T finished at 48%. You don’t have anything to cry about. All you have are double standards, cause you know everyone’s appetite for hating on Toss is insatiable.

The units you would complain about are so inconsequential to me, that I wish they would nerf them, cause it changes nothing. If it would lessen the whine, remove all the damage on the zealot. That’s fine with me.

We both agree that playing against toss seems broken or at the very least not fun… you have your reasons. and I have mines.

Also, I don’t watch all these pro gammers and say well this happened to them so that’s why I lost… I could probably come up with a strategy as good as theirs but will probably never be able to mechanically pull it off…

mechanics right that’s a topic for another thread in itself

I base this off my own games. I have nearly a 70% win rate against terran… against zerg its above or below 50% depending on the day. However, against toss I am like 20%… I am even starting to skip match ups b/c its not worth the frustration so numbers may be skewed.

I’ve played enough games against toss and I am tired of playing from behind. I just wont do it… If I do play toss its to practice build orders for other match ups…