I think that unit warp speed nerf(prism) is too imbalanced.
I think so because all races have their unique mechanics, and if you nerf main protoss mechanic, why you doesn’t nerf another? For example zerg’s “free” casted units unlike interceptors doesn’t have cost.
Pick up range shuld be like other races.
Zaelots charge, maybe good and it can help with balance.
I think justifying Charge nerf by bringing back SC1 Zealot vs Zergling dynamic isn’t fair when micro was very important for SC1 Zealots. Meanwhile, Charge prevents any micro and splitting as long as it’s active.
Over the years of SC2 Zerglings were brought closer to SC1, but, because of Charge itself, Zealots are still basically a-move.
That’s why I agree with those that think that splitting Charge into two upgrades should be at least tested out. Bring back SC1’s Leg Enhancements so Zealots don’t need Charge to move quickly, and Charge itself as an expensive upgrade for the lategame.
It will delay Chargelot all-ins (otherwise Zealots without Charge won’t hit as hard), and might also create a timing for Zealots to contest Zerglings for map control.
Even tho the infestor is the most broken unit since the release of starcraft in 1998? Just because its your race it doesnt mean its a good change
If you bring back a proper BW style zealot speed upgrade, you could completely remove charge since speed zealots do what charge zealots do but more consistently and they reward player micro.
You have to admit that watching a well-executed cannon rush adds some excitement to the game though. I saw a proposal to make the forge require a gateway which i thought was interesting (was that you who suggested that?). What are your thoughts?
Read that in 7th grade. Was a great book and a good movie
Still these changes addressing symptons not cause, problem is protoss economy, mule was nerfed and yet protoss have one free chronoboor per nexus, he can take 4:20 3 base and hit you with 50 chargelots beforer you have even stim, it is not even playable, i have winrate tvz 56, tvt 54 and tvp not evne 40, even doing build pro players to and once in a while i win when i micro perfectly and outplay my opponent 100 times, but it is so joke. It is imbalaned as hack, protoss shouldn’t have fully saturated third when terran just finished and there is nothing you can do to punish it… Retared in hots protoss have naturala at the same time and third even little bit latter or at the same time for terran to have chance, now you play 3 base protoss on 2 bases, it is so bullsh1t, cancer, unplayable…
What division are you in because that really does matter…
No you’re just being facetious. As I said in my original post I would like charge to be replaced with a speed upgrade that is better than their current speed with the charge upgrade (i.e. their movement speed when not charging). If you don’t get charge zealots are way too slow and useless outside of maxpax or a 4 gate.
I’m not saying that The game isn’t well balanced, I’m saying that a few design changes to Protoss would be nice. I don’t like that we got a whole bunch of nerfs to Protoss and a tiny buff to my least favourite unit the Carrier. I definitely don’t want any of the prism nerfs Blizzard is putting forward. And I would like to maybe have some other buff to counteract the Zealot change.
There is a simple reason why people think Zealots are OP. It’s because they see for example 5 zealots do insane work but they forget the fact that 5 Zealots cost 500 minerals. Replace the 5 Zealots with 10 Marines or 20 Zerglings and no one bats an eye. And that is strange if you ask me considering 10 Marines with Stim&Combat Shield or 20 Speed Zerglings is a lot scarier then 5 zealots. 10 Marines or 20 Zerglings enter your base it’s potentially game-ending damage. 5 Zealots enter your base it’s no big deal if you just pull your workers instantly. Marines also have way more micro potential and in a choke their efficiency skyrockets vs Zealots. Zerglings are way faster then Zealots and can engage disengage way easier to buy time and way cheaper to trigger widow mines with. If you are getting A-Moved by Zealots it’s not because Zealots themselves are OP, it’s because 1: Protoss has had better economy then the Terran, Terran moves out when he should not and get’s overwhelmed. ( or he has +3 armor and you have +1 weapon)
2: If you die 2 Zealot’s as Zerg its because you droned to hard and scouted poorly. If you know it’s coming it’s an easy hold for the Zerg, and saying it is unscoutable is a bad excuse.
Then there is the typical “Protoss just warps in 20 zealots in my base and I die” exaggeration. Okay firstly, if Protoss has 20 gates(which is an insane amount) this is late-game and there is no excuse for you to let 1 warprism enter your base with sensor towers or creep overlord ling giving map vision EVERYWHERE. Secondly if you told me that I could stop 40 marines from dropping in my base and all I needed 2 do to stop it was snipe 1 Medivac I would be so happy and I’d consider it a nerf for the Terran(if Terran could warp in obvisouly). Deflecting 1 warp prism is easy, if 5 medivacs full of units are hovering outside my base i need to commit everything from almost my entire army to huge portions of it depending on what supply we are at. It is way more difficult and scarier to deal with then a single warp prism. Terrans and Zergs are spoiled rotten in this game. A sensor tower equals a huge amount of observers and doesnt cost supply. Zerg has creep and 25 mineral lings and overlords they can spread everywhere and spot everything with ease without having to invest gas. Protoss macro takes a hit everytime they lose an observer because it takes up build time of your robotics. And still Terrans cry they cant stop a single warp prism and Zergs whine about the same thing.
Overall any Protoss that does not go for an all inn has 100 more things to worry about then Zerg or Terran. Terran can go the same core composition every game they know whats coming all you need to do is find out if it is storm or colossus first which is easy 2 identify. Zerg will always face immortal archon in a macro game.
Protoss on the other hand has to make massive tech switches or unit comp changes depending on what Zerg or Terran focus on. Suprise Muta’s or Swarm hosts can make your army worthless in a heartbeat if you don’t constantly scout.
They say Zerg has to “react” to Protoss. You have 2 react 2 a potential all inn just like any other race. If Protoss plays macro he has to react to zerg equally as much. Having to deflect harass does not qualify as saying only 1 race is the “reactionary one” it is complete nonsense and I have no idea why people keep thinking this way. Yes Protoss has more early game harass options but they are all defendable with a standard zerg build. We all know you want to drone to 80 and make 80% infestor 20% Broodlord/Corr and if you choose to cut that many corners saying Protoss all inns are to strong because Zerg is a “reactionary race” it’s just not valid. Every race is reactionary it just DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DECIDE TO PLAY.
Zergs complain Protoss all inns are hard to read and hold, well try to play vs Terran and the amount of strong 1 base or 2 base all inns they have vs Protoss and how dead you are if you dont identify them right away. And on top of that ofcourse you never know if they will SCV pull or not so you are constantly scared you’ll not react strong enough and get A-Moved.
I can agree Warp prism pickup range is strong with Immortal juggling and I don’t mind it being nerfed, but Protoss needs a big compensation in defensive situations for this nerf because Zerg is stronger then Protoss at the moment regardless. Overall ZVP results will tell you that story over and over again for a long period now. The Super Tournament is a 1 off and is a weak argument.
As for PVT, when Terran plays better the Terran wins I see no imbalance in this matchup. Main problem is the matchup is to snowbally from both perspectives and needs 2 be adressed so players don’t get edges based on blind decisions in build orders, or a widowmine blowing up lots of probes and instantly winning Terran the game (yes it happens on the highest level of play all the time).
Terran and Protoss should both be able to punish eachothers greedy thirds and Terrans who go harass builds into fast 3rd CC needs 2 stop complaining they can’t stop fast Protoss thirds, and you also need to understand if you invest in harassment and take a fast third and you don’t deal damage, Protoss will come and kill your third, that is not imbalance. ( well make you lift your third , did I mentioned how spoiled you are? )
What about reducing the number of units the warp-prism can warp in at a time? That wouldn’t negate the defenders as much as it currently is negated but wouldn’t mean we have to deal with the awfully long 11 second warp-in time.
I just want to preface this post by saying that I’m a Zerg main. I think these are great changes, and I think Blizzard has done a fantastic job in Legacy to make the game better, and I hope they continue to experiment.
I really liked the original idea of making the Warp Prism upgrade (Gravitic Drive) more relevant, but the original Warp Prism nerf seemed too impactful. This nerf seems more reasonable, but I still think it would be cool to make the upgrade more impactful to encourage rushing Robotics Bay, which really doesn’t happen very often. What if Gravitic Drive also increased the pick up range from 5 back up to 6? Or maybe there could be a new upgrade on the Robotics Bay that increases Warp Prism pick up range from 5 up to 7? Or maybe let Gravitic Drive increase pick up range to 7, and increase its cost?
While we’re on the topic of balance changes, I want to say that I really liked the Queen Transfuse change that happened a while ago. Changing Transfuse from instant 125 heal to instant 75 and 50 extra over time really changed game dynamics for the better (mass Transfuse was OP and hard to really counter), and I think it’s one of the best changes that Blizzard has made. However, I would really like them to take it one step further. What I would like to see is Transfuse changed to something like instant 50 heal and then 200 extra over time (at the same rate as it currently is). Right now Zerg has a hard time healing their damaged buildings, especially when you compare how the other races buildings heal. Buildings have so much HP compared to units, and Transfusing a building feels almost futile since you have to Transfuse so many times to heal back up to full health. I almost never see buildings Transfused at a high level, since Queen energy is so valuable. This would double the effectiveness of healing buildings and high HP units outside of battle, would make mass transfuse less effective in battle, and would reward cycling high health units from the front lines. This change would also have interesting strategic ramifications during battles. For example, if you transfuse a Queen on even 1HP, it will heal back up to 175HP, but it will be harder to keep alive since it will only get back to 51HP initially. Also, if it takes no additional damage it will heal a total of 174HP, thus wasting 76HP of potential healing. Therefore, you kind of want to try to get that Queen to tank a little bit more damage in a fight, because if it can draw a little bit more fire without dying, it will still heal back up to full health (or at least get the full 250 HP of healing). Overall, I think this would be a really cool change that would make the race more interesting to play. The numbers of 50HP with 200HP over time are also just a suggestion, I think you could go even a bit more extreme with something like 40 instant and 260 over time.
I think Charge would still be used because it guarantees instant surround, it just wouldn’t be as important early.
Also, Concussive Shells counters speed on Zealots, while Charge counters Concussive Shells.
Someone else originally proposed that, I think. I’ve touted that proposed change, though.
What I really think cannon rushing highlights, though, is how abusive canceling buildings can be. A guy who executes a cannon rush often cancels a gazillion buildings. The defender never even has a chance to KILL a building. The best he can do is force a cancel.
This ends up resulting in the cannon rusher always behind ahead in economy, given there is no discount given for having your probes not mining. Thus the cannon rusher is really just using a strategy that is win/win. A “cheese strat” ends up being the best strat.
If a guy proxy raxes and you find it instantly, you’re irked man. Because there is NO ADV to scouting a proxy rax asap, as Toss. If you’re Terran, you may as well just make it right next to the guy’s base. Either Toss won’t scout and you collect a win, or he’s going to scout it asap and you just cancel it and go on about your day.
I’d rather experiment, first, with not being able to cancel ANY buildings that were started before the 1:30 mark or something to that effect. To me, this is the real problem in the early game, across the board.
Charge is a terrible A-move ability. A proper speed upgrade is far better for gameplay and more fun looking.
These are good reasonable changes, but the NYDUS worm is still too cheap. Please make the nydus worm 100/100
Awesome changes! Cannot wait to have them on ladder ![:blush:](https://d212vo0owly06i.cloudfront.net/en/sc2/images/emoji/twitter/blush.png?v=6" ":blush:")
Protoss did just fine before they gave zealots the added damage to charge. I don’t know why people wants toss to be as easy as possible. Charge still keeps the other buffs blizz gave it.
And since when does protoss mainly just mass zealots anyway?
The main issue if we look at unit viability is the Lurker. They are useless outside of zvz. Pretty much every other unit in the game is viable.
LOL, this fine gentleman has just watched the Pylon-Show and is parroting the most stupid thing that Catz said with a straight-face in that show. Once-again the living proof that the most IQ-challenged people are too happy to outsource their brain. On the positive side this also shows that those poor excuses for Hommo-Sapiens-Sapiens are conscious of there 45 IQ brain and decide to parrot stupid memes from clowns that occasionally InControl uses in his show.
InControl started raving about it. He went off on catZ for that
The Charge damage nerf also helps so much involving WP mass warp harassment. Buildings can possibly be saved now in your main base.