Co-op Mission Update – February 14th, 2020

1. Karax’s level 1 perk now grants all combat units 50% increased Life.
2. Combat Unit Resource Cost Mastery replaced with Combat Unit Life and Shields Mastery. This Mastery increases combat unit Life and Shields by 1% per point, up to a maximum of 30%.

I’m really sorry, but this makes Karax worse and doesn’t fix the ramp problem? Or is there more coming and this is just one piece of the puzzle?
Because durability was never the issue for Karax, thanks to repair drones and reconstruction beams?
So now I always have to pay the higher price of units (since unit resource cost mastery is gone) just to have Immortals out later that just won’t die (except they were already almost invincible thanks to recon beam)?

This can’t be it, right? Karax’s buildings don’t cost so much that a reduction in cost would overweigh losing the Resource Cost mastery?

Please consider buffing at least the offensive special abilities of Karax’s units, making the units just a bit fatter doesn’t make them more appealing, just win more (at a time where my ally already won everything).

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I thought his top bar would get buffed when I read this. Making his units tankier was the last thing I expected tbh.

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I’d say they’re planning on more, yes. We’ll have to wait and see what else they’re thinking of for now.

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For those who can use Karax and never lose units… hats off to you! The rest of us still do lose units every now and then.

There’s more…

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Since we lost the “reduced resource cost” mastery, could you please tweak that his level 1 perk so that it only increase the Mineral cost of his units instead of both mineral and gas cost?
This would help a lot in mass carrier build

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If the immortals could shoot air permanently after getting their cannon upgrade while still retaining the ability to do a quick burst.

Speaking of the burst, it deals 200 damage in three hits, which means it can’t one shot zerg units with 200 HP as they regenerate one hitpoint before the third hit.

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Great news indeed.

Also I want to thank you for Mengsk, he is IMO the best commander with very Mengsky feel to him (visuals audio and everything).

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Incidentally, with 30 points in the new mastery, a Karax Immortal would have 360hp and 130sp which puts him at slightly less cost efficient than a Fenix Immortal for toughness.

Karax:
(337min+130ves) / (360hp+130sp) = ~0.95

Fenix:
(200min+80ves) / (200hp+100sp) = ~0.93

So yeah, maybe make the buff 50% to health and shields? That way at least the units pay for themselves defensively, they won’t be close offensively.

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Hello,

Many thanks for the heads up! And nice to hear about the planned changes.

Could you be so kind, please that you won’t immediately implement the changes, but list everything and let the community give feedback about them for about 1 or 2 weeks?

I really like the idea of making the important upgrades like infestation or spear of adun levels cheaper. This is one if not the most important things the commanders need. What we need.

Please, prioritize fixing Nikara’ and Arcturus’ medivacs’ AI. They tend not to behave properly. It has been like this since their release.

I would like to list several ideas. Some are my own and some I took from forum posts.

Karax:

With removing the unit cost mastery the units will be so expensive again. Could you consider adding about 20% lower cost for all combat units, please? Also, Karax lacks early anti-air unit. Would be nice if you boosted the energizer with greater anti air damage, for example seperate its ground and air attack and make the air one stronger. Make both stronger actually, but the air ammount more like ground damage becomes 6 (12vs light), air damage becomes 20 (35vs massive) and gains 8 range.

All of Karax’ anti-air units deal so little damage, that they have no chance against bigger targets like battlecruisers, tempests, carriers or broodlords. Energizer deals 6 damage, mirage deals 5, interceptor deals 6. If you meet one of these mentioned above, your units will deal maximum 1 damage if those are upgraded and yours are not. I suggest giving mirages a damage increase vs armored targets instead of light. Phoenixes have vs light, so mirages could have vs armored and have a slight cost decrease. Or ofc strenghten the energizer’s attack. I wrote some examples before to what might help, coming from my game experience. Additionally the energizer should be able to attack and cast the chrono beam ability simultanously.

Please fix the no-chrono-bug on the additionally built nexuses when Karax is in the game.

In my oppinion the chrono wave energy generation for Spear of Adun is nowhere near to repair beam healing rate. I have an idea for this, something like Improved Spear of Adun. Would add extra unique benefits for all four top bar abilities like Orbital strike gains +1dmg per point (including vs armored dmg as well); Solar lance deals +4dmg per point vs buildings; Chrono wave gains +0,5sec duration per point; Purifier beam gains -2% cooldown per point. In addition increase repair beam healing rate mastery from 1% per point to +2,5% per point.

The purifier beam is much less frequently useable than every other top bar in the game due to its late availability and rare usability. I suggest its starting cooldown and cooldown be set to 300sec.

Karax players should be included in Zeratul’s after-match shields restored stats similarly to how Stetmann is now included in Zagara’s damage by banelings one.

Level 8 upgrade’s description should write exactly how many more targets can be affected by repair beam as well as level 14 upgrade’s description should write how long does the mirage remain invulnerable.

Swann:

Level 1 description should be re-written, because it is not accurete. It writes 20% faster production for units than other commanders, but Raynor has his units built faster by 50%. Both are increased towards base normal, not each other.

The thor’s ground and air weapons should have the same range, because when meeting targets that can be targeted by both ground and air weapons they use the anti air weapon, which is much weaker against objectives. Maybe with equaling the two weapons’ range they would prioritize the stronger one.

Command center reactor upgrade from Wings of Liberty could come handy as well as SCVs’ benefitting from regenerative biosteel upgrade. Whether by level 15 or somehow else.

Cyclone is a very rarely used unit, they could use some rework for example seperating its ground and air attacks and add bonus dmg vs armored for ground 6(20 vs armored) and vs light for air 6(20 vs light) or something like this. Also, an about 25% damage reduction would be nice as long as lock on is active.

I think wraith is the second least used unit. A little boost could make people use it more often. Like adding the WoL Tomahawk Power Cells upgrade which gives them +100 starting energy. The evade chance should be replaced with damage reduction.

Stukov:

A lot of people complain about higher bunker cost and taking away the chance from infested play. I think this could be solved by giving an opportunity to make two completely different playstyles available. One for infestation and one for mech-based. I imagine this with modifying masteries in tier 1 and 3. Also some smaller changes.

Volatile infested spawn chance could be included in infestation level researches with increasing chance with each research, instead of being mastery-depended. That mastery could be replaced by factory and starport unit health regen, somehow similarly to Nova’s regen mastery. With this tier 1 would have one opportunity for mech play, the other infest structure cooldown for infestation play. You could further lower the cooldown for the ability, maybe from 1,5% to 2,5%. Maybe also increase maximum charges from 3 to 5.

Would be a huge change to make broodlings and volatile that siege tanks shoot follow the psi emitter. Currently they just stand their ground.

Would also be a nice feature to make infest structure produce an infested “special matching” unit when used on certain buildings. For example if you put it on a barracks it would spawn an infested firebat or marauder. Or if on a gateway a zombie with psi blades. If on an ultralisk caver it would spawn a pigalisk (the little ultralisk unit from Piercing the shroud mission). With timed life and controlled via psi emitter ofc.

Bunker should only cost 6 supply starting Level 14. Before that it only contains 4 troopers. It could cost 300 minerals again, but troopers should live for only 15 seconds while not in a bunker.

Missile turrets could benefit from bunker upgrades (twice as fast regen and extra armor) as well as barrack tech lab upgrades (+1 range and plagued munitions).

Brood queen runs out of energy very quickly and regains it quite slowly. I think Level 13 upgrade should increase her energy regen by 200% instead of 100% OR keep the 100%, but add +100 maximum energy.

Should gain the micro-filtering upgrade from the campaign which causes 25% faster vespene gathering (from 4 per trip to 5 per trip).

Han and Horner:

Hangar drones are very expensive. Their gas cost could be halved. Also, bringing the tech requirement from Armory to E-bay. They could be capable of repairing the host galleon. The speed of the repair would depend on how many drones are available.

Make magmines “smartcast” similarly to psionic storm of the Avatar of form. Make them activate when at least 3 enemy units are nearby.

Maybe you or others will also find my ideas useful.

Have a nice day everybody!
Best regards,
Mazso

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(@Mazso)
One quick thing, Karax versus sky Terran/Protoss is already his best match up. Just reclaim everything.

You have some fine ideas though.

Thanks for the news Kevin

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Without new maps coop is kinda boring, even when the (existing) commanders get changed up all the time. There’s only so much additional game time one can get out of an immortal who has now a few hp more until it gets boring again.

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Great approach this.

I find myself playing these slow early game commanders not very often. Not because i don’t like them but for the pure frustration and feeling you have like walking behind at least 30% of the game. Especially on fast maps it can get a bit extreme when paired with some very strong/fast ones like aba/dehaka.

Looking forwards what you guys have in store for us and good to see you still work on Co-op :blush:

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Blackhammers are great against air comps, but they’re also really slow and unwieldy on big maps.

Being able to transport them better with the Medivacs would help - afterburners and cloak staying on.

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cloak stays on when carrying blackhammers, it’s the shock division that disables cloak

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Starts clapping slowly, which eventually rises to a standing ovation

Good. Good coop-op team, good! Now take these changes, and dew it!

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Good changes so far. On the subject of Kerrigan, if you could give her Mutalisks a cost reduction, that would make them more useful as they are so easily killed right now.

How about dropping the cost for Karax upgrades?
One of the dilemmas that Karax has to face is which upgrades I should invest in so my garbage army won’t disappoint my ally. His power is not only locked behind by expensive units but also by an outrageous amount of resources that must be put into upgrades. If the unit cost goes back 30%+, the upgrade costs must drop to compensate otherwise you will end up with an even smaller army that sounds tanky on paper but it’s still garbage in practice.

My suggestion:
Decrease SOA upgrades cost

  • SOA energy upgrades level 1 200/200 → 100/100
  • SOA energy upgrades level 2 250/250 → 150/150
  • SOA energy upgrades level 3 300/300 → 200/200

Reason: You almost always have to upgrade SOA regardless of whether you have to go army or tower since it’s the most reliable way to deal with air units. The 200/200 cost for the 1st upgrade is ridiculous. You barely have any energy left if you use your SOA for clearing the rocks. Basically all the energy you invested for 90 energy just helps you clear the rocks in the beginning!!!

Decrease Forge/Cybernetics Core upgrades cost

  • Ground Weapons/Armor Level 1 100/100 → 75/75
  • Ground Weapons/Armor Level 2 150/150 → 100/100
  • Ground Weapons/Armor Level 3 200/200 → 125/125
  • Shield Level 1 125/125 → 100/100
  • Shield Level 2 175/175 → 150/150
  • Shield Level 3 250/250 → 200/200
  • Air Weapons/Armor Level 2 175/175 → 125/125
  • Air Weapons/Armor Level 3 250/250 → 150/150

Reason: I can understand why Kevin wants to push for unit durability since Karax needs a way to differentiate himself against Fenix/Zeratul which are both heavy hitters. Fenix Forge/Cybernetics Core upgrades are the same as Karax considered Fenix units are way better. And Zeratul doesn’t even need to upgrade to begin with. I think one of the issues commonly happens with Karax is you barely have money to get upgrades for shield/armor since “more sht kills less sht” -WinterSC, nobody can afford those durability upgrades until you reach 200/200. With upgrades cost become more affordable, Karax army will differentiate by being more tanky than Fenix and Zeratul. This will keep Karax units a little bit inline with his design philosophy - “expensive but worth the money”.

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Stukov: get rid of volatile inf spawn chance, make it permanent and replace it with research cost reducement or permanent units healing.

Also, please make the mech attack speed mastery actually work with all mech like inf diamondbacks!

Swann: consider making the gas drones permanent and only 10minerals cost and maybe replacing it by supply mastery similar to Fenix.

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Kevin Please IMPROVE Kerrigan’s Chain Reaction and Mastery 3.2: Ability and Attack Speed.

Chain Reaction Problem:

  1. 1. The attack is Weak - people says Chain Reaction adds 40 overall damage to Kerrigan’s attack but it doesn’t show much noticable power.
    Why can’t the ability be set at 25 % or 33% of current attack? If Kerrigan’s attack be at 60 then it can be set to 15 or 20.

2. The attack should be spell - the ability becomes less effective at opponents with high defence points. Enemies always upgrades their armour, which means 10 damage is decreased by at least 3.

3. No Carapace Bonus
I tried this numerous times but it is confirmed that Chain Reaction yields no Carapce Bonus.

Sure, Kerrigan’s Fury and Malignant Creep drastically improves her offence but Chain Reaction feels underwhelming and doesn’t produce enough synergy.

Mastery 3.2: Ability and Attack Speed Problem:

Okay This is a maybe But I always figured that Kerrigan is given a choice to be a Supreme Zerg Commander or the REAL PRIMAL QUEEN of BLADES (Like I can solo play Kerrigan like DEHAKA). This may sound OP but If I face against enemies with Tough Fire power, She is still in Trouble! But I it is your choice to tweak this!

I wish you can consider these changes!

PS. Can Queens get Auto Transfusions and can they use it to quickly Spawn Kerrigan and Zagara? Cheers!