Balance suggestion - Terran buff

How about talking about concrete stuff instead of pulling numbers out of your pockets?

I can as well give you tons of numbers out of context to “pretend that I am right” here as well.
In favour of any race.

I got inspired by your suggestions. Lets also make zerglings jump over cliffs with the speed upgrade. Also make the supply depot unable to lower, it is not fun at the moment. Also while we’re on the topic give the zealots blink.

TvZ was 47.49% that means ZvT was 52.51%. but hey, i guess that’s “NEARLY 54%”.
as for this period, it’s less then a weak old.
by the by, what is the winrate of terrans vs zerg at the premier level again?
oh right, let’s take a look
for all of DH Summer Masters start to finish
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Summer/Statistics
TvZ 92-77. dang.
GSL Code S to date
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League/2020/Season_2/Code_S_Statistics
TvZ 24-20. dang
Douyu Cup 2020
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Douyu_Cup/2020
TvZ 20-17. dang.
yeah. those terrans are certainly getting recked by zerg man!

but hey, i guess those numbers wouldn’t support the Terran agenda.
even blizzard admitted that TvZ was balanced BEFORE they laid they nerf bat on zerg last patch, but that never stopped Terran whiners from whining did it?

i mean were talking about the race that in GSL last season…
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League/2020/Season_1/Code_S_Statistics
won 70% of their TvZ games.
won 52.3% of their TvP games.
had 4/8 Terrans in the Quarter finals
had 3/4 Terrans in the Semi finals
and had a TvT finals.

and still actually thought they had the right to say that not only were they weak, but flooded the forums with tears because Parting beat Maru, denying Terran a full 4/4 semi finals.

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So i looked again and i was jumping to conclusions. This tournament:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Summer/EU

Had higher Terran win rates thanks to Latin America, China, TW / HK / MO / JP, Oceania / RoA.

Latin america had for example 15:3 and China 8:2 for Zerg…

TvZ win rates:

  • in Europe were 20:32
  • in NA 11:15
  • in season finals 4:15 (but only zergs were Reynor and Serral)

Also i forget to mention in GSL:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League/2020/Season_2/Code_S_Statistics

That 24 vs 20, it is not much of a difference. Only 4 games. And it is not even pool of 50 games. So statistic can be skewed in favor of one race, by coincidence etc.

I also forget to mention player pool was: Cure, Ty, Innovation, Maru. Which are top players in the world.

But from Zerg - Zerg had representation of players like:

  • Armani
  • Impact
  • Soo
  • Rogue
  • Solar

Which are simply nowhere near on the level of these players. So this tournament had every unbalanced skill representation per race…

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Douyu_Cup/2020

This was online tournament. These stats can’t be taken seriously, because of lag and players are awake at 5 am etc. Look at individual players:

  • Namshar 1:4
  • Bly 1:4
  • Scarlett 1:4
  • Armani 1:4

These players caused low TvZ win rates, not to mention, there wasn’t large enough pool of games so these win rates could be more skewed…

I am sorry, i was stupid idiot. Now i see my mistake…

You don’t have to post the statistics of aligulac we all know them we can all look them up.

I actually don’t have any problems with TvZ. could it be modified here and there? yes. You ask for proof so I sarcastically brung up aligulac. Thats what everyone else does. especially win the numbrers fit their agenda.

I do not think that algulac is a good representation of balance. For one there are not enough games played considering that 1% +/- of all SC2 players compete in.
Also There are only 8 people that have a legitimate chance to win each tournament probably less than that. Those people are skewing the numbers and if you took them out you probably would get a clearer picture of how inbalance the game actually is.

PvT has been over 50% for months. Imagine how high it would be if you took out only 1 of the top terrans. it could go into the 60% +. Even if you took the top Protoss out to compensate for that.

p.s. I am sure that blizzard has the statistics of total win percentage of all games played and win percentages of each league. I wish they would post them. I am more interested in those numbers.

Yea statistics aren’t ultimate measure of balance. But if they are in favor of one race for a long period of time - consistently. It probably means something. For example: PvT win rates are in favor of Protoss 23:9 since october 2018. When you take periods with 50%+ win rate. Not even counting overall win rate and when protoss have lower than 50% win rate. It is usually something close to 50% like 49%.

Also if you looked to statistics before october 2018, when was cyclone nerf patch. You can see they were much much better for Terran. Reason cyclone nerf hurts TvP is, that Protoss had to be more careful when taking a third, because reactored cyclone build existed and if you wasn’t careful, you could get punished by it! And they would cancel your third!

Also if you played game long time and something changes you can notice it and you can also spot problems within the game, if you play on high level! So you have to take both experience and compare it with statistics!

i have no problem with fixing Terran Vs Protoss.
just like i have no problem with fixing Zerg vs Protoss. i think both matchups needs to be fixed. what i don’t want, is making changes to Terran or Zerg that affect a balanced matchup, and frankly guess what?

all these changes impact TvZ and that is why i am against those changes.

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the widow mine change is a huge nerf to Terran in TvZ. I considered it In the change. I feel like widow mines killing 30+ lings/banes are incredibly unfair and frustrating for zerg. They add unneeded and unskillful RNG to an otherwise good MU. But Terran would need some buffs to compensate.

this happens so rarely that it isn’t much of a change, and those units that are hit are guaranteed to die instead of just maybe die.

what is marines damage at +3 upgrades if at +2 upgrades they get +3?

It means the second attack upgrade gives one more damage. So they will deal 9 damage instead of 8 with the second attack upgrade.

Widow mines are fine for Zerg to deal with you just split.

Just check Zerg pros In tvz and look how they split vs widow mines. That’s the reason Terran pros don’t go to much widow mines.

TvP was a horrible match up in hots. You guys sound pretty clueless.

Its funny,

You people should go back to play on hots if you like that so much,

But remember, Warp gate wasn’t nerfed yet.

All you are saying is that Protoss needs to be weaker, and how they got better through the lotv changes, yet you fail to mention the nerfs Protoss received.

Colossus was nerfed
Warpgate was nerfed
Immortal was nerfed
Forcefield was nerfed

It’s not nearly enough tho

It may have been a bad match up then as well. But, you want to know what. I didnt make a single PvT thread back then. And for what it is worth at least the match up felt fun and you could go into a marcro game.

Dont forget that terran had heat seeker missle and at one point ravens healed mech units.And had DPP. Those things were fun to play with. And they were extremely usefull. The Raven now is crap. A shell of its former self.

The Raven is like seeing a 35 year old fighter trying to go for the championship one more time. Everyone knows that the fighter lost a step or 2 or 3 but they still cheer them on. If he loses they hope they retire and walk away in the sunset.

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Indeed PvT needs some rework.

Ghosts are way too hard of a lockdown for the insane amount of allrounder and high impact units T has with mines/tanks/MMM while having instant initiative and more dynamic gameplay as T at the same time.
There is absolutely no decision making here if you want to snap out a few casters or some core units, EMPs just hit whole armies and snap 50% of the army HP off instantly, while toss has less dmg and a complete caster lockdown on top of that.
Even prism stormdrop is close to impossible cause you can’t pull it off with proper agressive army movement of bio.

Imagine the amount of flame that terrans would have here in the forum if they would have to ghostdrop with medivacs or beeing useless as a caster.
Even that is a better mechanic cause you have instant impact that you can’t micro against.
It’s deleting the only micro potential toss has completely in stacked armies, which is caster micro.

Zealots need their impact damage back desperatly, there is absolutely negative scaling in gateway units rn and everything is around colossus/storms which is super easy to lockdown, while already beeing the lower DPS units compared to any other unitlayout ingame (with that I mean zealot/stalker/sentry).

From there we can discuss if shield battery needs to be deleted then cause of more stability with zealots.

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What?? No…going into a macro game is MUCH more feasible now against toss, with things like liberators and better BCs, bigger emp and nerfed collosi. Late game hots TVP was nearly impossible. In my view there is no argument. TVP is easier now than it was then.

What i would recommend for balance:

Terran: Ability for Raven to take a stationary form that grants +3 vision radius and self-cloak, when this form is in use, no abilities are active. Reduce the pixel(shadow) size of Thor unit so it doesn’t need three land squares to pass obstructions. 2nd suggestion for Thor; reduce ground to ground attack dmg by 5, add an upgrade at the Armory to add +3 ground to ground dmg and add +1 movement speed within a single upgrade. Boost Cyclone maximum hit points a tad (like +10) or reduce the gas cost some. Upon spawn increase starting energy of ghosts by 25, or grant it through an upgrade.

Protoss: Increase striking range of Adept by one. Increase striking range of psionic storm by one. Upon spawn increase starting energy of high templar by 25, or grant it through an upgrade. For the Sentry; movement speed could be boosted just a hair higher. 2nd suggestion for the Sentry; increase the active duration of guardian shield to 14 seconds.

Zerg: Reduce required time of evolving a hydralisk den into a lurker den, say to 70% of what it currently takes now. Reduce Lair and Hive structural evolution time somewhere in the range of 5 to 10 seconds faster, BUT increase the spawning time of zerg satellite tech structures by 5 seconds. Have the Baneling dmg output be based upon it’s life % at the time it deals damage. So a Baneling with 100% of it’s hit points does 100% dmg and a damaged Baneling deals proportionally less damage corresponding to how much hit points they collide with.

Well would you look at that, not a single Terran buff in the new balance patch - OldWhovian

Not a bad idea, basically observer mode.

Thors only need 2 squares AFAIK, they’re fine where they are

You don’t build thors to deal with ground units (usually) they also should be slow and clunky (even though I hate it) because of their anti-air strength.

Cyclone is fine where it is, it’s a very potent early game unit that requires micro and falls off later in the game. More HP might tip the balance a little too much and make it OP

Just another terran player’s opinion on these suggestions.