Balance suggestion - Terran buff

After watching hundreds of hours of sc2 replays from pro game, I would like to make a balance suggestion which I feel could help balance the currently very imbalanced PvT match up.

  1. Remove battery overcharge, its incredibly unfun, frustrating and op.
  2. Give ghost stim so they can kite like the rest of the bio, right now they barely last a few seconds in fight because they cannot quite the zealots, colossi and can’t properly split versus disruptors
  3. Buff bio upgrade to make it so marines deal +3dmg with the second weapon upgrade instead of +2dmg.
  4. Don’t allow stalkers to blink over cliffs and reduce cooldown of blink by 2 seconds, making it more of a micro tool and less abusable versus tanks in early game
  5. Give vikings and liberators +10 health so they can survive better vs stalkers and psy-storm.
  6. Make widowmine have lower splash radius but higher splash damage (less effective versus probes, more effective versus zealots).

I think those changes might make it more fair for the Terran players and give us a chance to play in the mid and late game versus toss’s oppressive lategame. What do you guys think. How would you buff Terran considering protoss is currently sitting at 55% winrate. You can’t say all Terran players aren’t innovative / creative enough, there are creative players from every race and if the whole Terran player base cannot figure out a way to win versus protoss, then there is definitely a problem.

10 Likes

I REALLY like the changes you proposed. Although im not sure if its enough, I think its a good starting point to help out this currently insanely broken matchup. Zealots are just way too strong and ghost just arent that good of a fighting unit compared to HT.

2 Likes

While i agree there need to be some changes to fix TvP. This seems redundant to me. Protoss is OP, because economy. It never were zealots, warprism, etc. These units were never problem in HOTS!!!

In HOTS:

  • protoss would have to pause probe production at 9/10 to get pylon, than every future probe would be slowed down
  • Protoss nexi had 10 supply, while cc 11
  • Protoss would get natural much later, because MSC, or at the same time
  • Protoss couldn’t go natural before cyber, he would die to reaper
  • Both races got natural after 2nd pylon, meaning 2nd,3rd MULE would hit sooner, in ratio to nexus completion time and saturating 2nd nexus, you would have more mining from mules, before Protoss would get next mineral line, more workers and more chrono!
  • chrono boost cost 25, meaning it is harder to multi task with, while LOTV chrono is equally efficient, because you get one for free! Until late game at least!
  • rax started at 11 supply: meaning 1st/2nd/3rd MULE would hit sooner to ratio of probe count and natural nexus completion time and than unlocking 2nd chrono and mineral line and being able to produce more workers

IN LOTV:

  • Protoss can go natural before cyber, yet not lose any probes!
  • Protoss can go cyber and than still have natural little bit faster, yet half cc with adept!
  • rax starting at 15 supply, mule hits much later in ratio to nexus completion time, probe count, unlocking 2nd chrono boost and mineral line
  • Protoss nexus provide 15 supplies same as cc
  • chrono boost is same efficient until late game and you have to cast it 50% times less , while you won’t overuse it probably!

Changes i propose:

  • revert worker start to 8-9, more breaks the game
  • start with stacked workers, when they would be at that time, if that was 6 worker start
  • start with minerals in bank, according to a race
  • revert supplies to hots!
  • revert autogate transform
  • revert autohotkeying
  • revert chrono boost to hots
  • revert minerals per patches
  • buff colossus to hots
  • revert emp
  • revert MULE nerf
  • revert supply depot nerf
  • revert zealot buff
  • observer in static mode doesn’t get more vision, if anything, if you get huge buff like obs unaffected by f2, it should have weakness, now you need only 5 obs and you can see whole middle of map…

These are very basics. I would revert whole game to hots, because hots was overall 10 times more balanced. Only things what were problem was:

  • maps
  • sh
  • ravens
  • tempests
  • vipers
3 Likes

How about STOP TERRAN SELF SPLASH DAMAGE. WHAT OTHER RACE HAS SPLASH DAMAGE TO THEIR OWN UNITS

So by tgat logic we should also give zerg a caster who can drain opponents energy and a capital ship that can hit air and ground.

2 Likes

Of course you do youre the same person!!!

1 Like

protoss does…

Shia: let’s buff these units so terran can have a fighting chance against protoss.
Also Shia: let’s not bring up what these changes would do to tvz
Also shia: lets not bring up how bad these nerfs would be for pvz

3 Likes

Protoss is op versus zerg so they need nerfs and Terran is weak versus zerg so they need buffs anyway. I think this should all help

1 Like

Hummmm ? I’m the same person as him ?? Look at the post history, he’s insanely toxic and vitriolic in my post while I try to stay very respectful even with people who I disagree with. Don’t put me in the same bunch as the those toxic players who cuss and are very disrespectful (you know who I’m talking about)

Now, a standard whineterran (like you) can’t have all the negative traits like some specimens here.
To your credit we agree that you are a likable whineterran.
If you would switch races (Terran ----> Protoss) you can manage to be a decent reasonable poster.

1 Like

Hahahha, agree to disagree, I feel like if you switched from Protoss to Terran, you could be a reasonable poster.

1 Like

this is as false as can be, as a zerg fan i readily admit that Protoss vs Zerg is a nightmare.

yeah where’s your data to prove this? because aligulac disagrees with you and so does tournaments.

2 Likes

aligulac says that zerg won nearly 54% of their matches last update and currently are winning 65%. I guess these numbers do not mean anything if they do not fit your agenda.

2 Likes

How about talking about concrete stuff instead of pulling numbers out of your pockets?

I can as well give you tons of numbers out of context to “pretend that I am right” here as well.
In favour of any race.

I got inspired by your suggestions. Lets also make zerglings jump over cliffs with the speed upgrade. Also make the supply depot unable to lower, it is not fun at the moment. Also while we’re on the topic give the zealots blink.

TvZ was 47.49% that means ZvT was 52.51%. but hey, i guess that’s “NEARLY 54%”.
as for this period, it’s less then a weak old.
by the by, what is the winrate of terrans vs zerg at the premier level again?
oh right, let’s take a look
for all of DH Summer Masters start to finish
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Summer/Statistics
TvZ 92-77. dang.
GSL Code S to date
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League/2020/Season_2/Code_S_Statistics
TvZ 24-20. dang
Douyu Cup 2020
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Douyu_Cup/2020
TvZ 20-17. dang.
yeah. those terrans are certainly getting recked by zerg man!

but hey, i guess those numbers wouldn’t support the Terran agenda.
even blizzard admitted that TvZ was balanced BEFORE they laid they nerf bat on zerg last patch, but that never stopped Terran whiners from whining did it?

i mean were talking about the race that in GSL last season…
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League/2020/Season_1/Code_S_Statistics
won 70% of their TvZ games.
won 52.3% of their TvP games.
had 4/8 Terrans in the Quarter finals
had 3/4 Terrans in the Semi finals
and had a TvT finals.

and still actually thought they had the right to say that not only were they weak, but flooded the forums with tears because Parting beat Maru, denying Terran a full 4/4 semi finals.

1 Like

So i looked again and i was jumping to conclusions. This tournament:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Summer/EU

Had higher Terran win rates thanks to Latin America, China, TW / HK / MO / JP, Oceania / RoA.

Latin america had for example 15:3 and China 8:2 for Zerg…

TvZ win rates:

  • in Europe were 20:32
  • in NA 11:15
  • in season finals 4:15 (but only zergs were Reynor and Serral)

Also i forget to mention in GSL:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League/2020/Season_2/Code_S_Statistics

That 24 vs 20, it is not much of a difference. Only 4 games. And it is not even pool of 50 games. So statistic can be skewed in favor of one race, by coincidence etc.

I also forget to mention player pool was: Cure, Ty, Innovation, Maru. Which are top players in the world.

But from Zerg - Zerg had representation of players like:

  • Armani
  • Impact
  • Soo
  • Rogue
  • Solar

Which are simply nowhere near on the level of these players. So this tournament had every unbalanced skill representation per race…

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Douyu_Cup/2020

This was online tournament. These stats can’t be taken seriously, because of lag and players are awake at 5 am etc. Look at individual players:

  • Namshar 1:4
  • Bly 1:4
  • Scarlett 1:4
  • Armani 1:4

These players caused low TvZ win rates, not to mention, there wasn’t large enough pool of games so these win rates could be more skewed…

I am sorry, i was stupid idiot. Now i see my mistake…

You don’t have to post the statistics of aligulac we all know them we can all look them up.

I actually don’t have any problems with TvZ. could it be modified here and there? yes. You ask for proof so I sarcastically brung up aligulac. Thats what everyone else does. especially win the numbrers fit their agenda.

I do not think that algulac is a good representation of balance. For one there are not enough games played considering that 1% +/- of all SC2 players compete in.
Also There are only 8 people that have a legitimate chance to win each tournament probably less than that. Those people are skewing the numbers and if you took them out you probably would get a clearer picture of how inbalance the game actually is.

PvT has been over 50% for months. Imagine how high it would be if you took out only 1 of the top terrans. it could go into the 60% +. Even if you took the top Protoss out to compensate for that.

p.s. I am sure that blizzard has the statistics of total win percentage of all games played and win percentages of each league. I wish they would post them. I am more interested in those numbers.

Yea statistics aren’t ultimate measure of balance. But if they are in favor of one race for a long period of time - consistently. It probably means something. For example: PvT win rates are in favor of Protoss 23:9 since october 2018. When you take periods with 50%+ win rate. Not even counting overall win rate and when protoss have lower than 50% win rate. It is usually something close to 50% like 49%.

Also if you looked to statistics before october 2018, when was cyclone nerf patch. You can see they were much much better for Terran. Reason cyclone nerf hurts TvP is, that Protoss had to be more careful when taking a third, because reactored cyclone build existed and if you wasn’t careful, you could get punished by it! And they would cancel your third!

Also if you played game long time and something changes you can notice it and you can also spot problems within the game, if you play on high level! So you have to take both experience and compare it with statistics!